Regen Braking

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  #11  
Old 01-08-2009, 05:27 PM
wwest's Avatar
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by glennb
Sounds like your instincts are correct.

The attached page from the 2006 shop manual describes the brake-by-wire system in the FEH and suggests that the braking system is capable of using any combination of Regen and "Friction Pad" brakes....depending on the vehicle speed/deceleration and brake pedal position inputs. So the answer to the question is, "It depends." and "The computer decides."

Note: I'm fairly sure this write up is an accurate description of the 2009 system (other than the parking brake and rear brakes now being full drum brakes). I don't know if VSC (Ford calls it AdvanceTrac RSC) changes this description.
I don't know when, what year, the FEH F/AWD system was revised but I'm relatively sure that the new ABS/VSC/TC/BA/EBD/etc, systems could NOT be functional if the old AWD system that used an electric clutch to engage, SOLIDLY engage, the rear drive were still in use. Additionally the VSC/TC systems cannot be functional absent having independent/individual braking and "unbraking" capability for each of the 4 wheels. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the information via the link you so kindly provided proves to be mostly obsolete.

Does Ford have an on line document subscription service as does Toyota, techinfo.toyota.com...??

Isn't the 2009 back to full disc brakes..??
 

Last edited by wwest; 01-08-2009 at 05:42 PM.
  #12  
Old 01-08-2009, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Please ignore Willard's statements. He does not own a Ford Escape Hybrid. He continues to twist and turn with any replies. Willard, do your children know where you are?
 

Last edited by Billyk; 01-08-2009 at 07:05 PM.
  #13  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by wwest
"still plenty of regen braking(1) and regen "engine" brake(2).."

You seem to be implying you are using "B" mode, in which case...OF COURSE.

"ABS seems..."

Of course, just as your owner manual states, regen is disabled whenever ABS activates.

"ABS will reduce..."

Never happen, do the research.

ABS will NEVER reduce the straight line stopping distance but will often help to prevent a "skid"... loss of directional control.
And "B" mode is?

With respect to the ABS stopping distance... I believe research shows that on some surfaces (fresh snow, gravel) ABS can extend the straight line stopping distance because when the wheels lock up without ABS they can plow the snow or dig in to the gravel, stopping in a shorter distance... but on most other surfaces, if you hammer the brakes in a panic stop and lock the wheels, your likely to slide further than you would if ABS were active and the wheels did not lock.

And back to the original issue of regen braking... no one who drives a FEH in cold weather seems to notice this "substantial" reduction in regen capbility... Is this just speculation on your part?
 
  #14  
Old 01-09-2009, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by deemac
And "B" mode is?

With respect to the ABS stopping distance... I believe research shows that on some surfaces (fresh snow, gravel) ABS can extend the straight line stopping distance because when the wheels lock up without ABS they can plow the snow or dig in to the gravel, stopping in a shorter distance... but on most other surfaces, if you hammer the brakes in a panic stop and lock the wheels, your likely to slide further than you would if ABS were active and the wheels did not lock.

And back to the original issue of regen braking... no one who drives a FEH in cold weather seems to notice this "substantial" reduction in regen capbility... Is this just speculation on your part?
The theory is, no doubt VALID theory, that if you can "threshold" brake, apply just enough braking to each wheel individually such as to just barely, almost, be NOT locking/skidding, the shortest stopping distance will be attained.

The on and off "nature" of Anti-lock braking is NOT threshold braking, only a close compromise, a compromise limited by the mechanical delays inherent in the design of modern day anti-lock systems.

Look at your owners manual, most of the new, revised, ones will tell you quite bluntly that ABS is more likely to extend stopping distances than not.

Regen reduction. Let's forget, for the moment, that Ford was granted a patent that quite explicitly lays out the technique, procedure, and even a mathimatical formula for the rate at which regen is reduced as the OAT declines.

Let's approach this from a purely practical standpoint.

Absent a clutch would YOU downshift, severely downshift a FWD, FWD "only" vehicle if you were not certain, certain sure, of roadbed conditions. Say entering a long sweeping curve on a dark and stormy, COLD NIGHT...???

And here you are driving an FEH, FWD, the SOC is low, the OAT is below freezing, you lift the throttle fully, and you would have the system go into FULL regen...??

NOT...!!!
 
  #15  
Old 01-09-2009, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Please ignore Willard's statements. He does not own a FEH. He is known to frequently post inaccurate statements about the vehicle. He is not an automobile engineer.
 
  #16  
Old 01-09-2009, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

LOL this is funny.....
All I know is, I drove cross country (Atlanta-LA) On I40, went through about 2 miles of black ice in between New Mexico and Arizona, saw lots of jacked up cars on the side of the road, flipped, jacked knifed, ditched...you name it, I saw it. Car did fine, I had it loaded down with my trailer mounted bike rack, a roof mounted cargo bag, back full of luggage, 110lbs Lab, wife and I. When we got to LA, we made a family trip to Big Bear for some snowboarding, they had got 60 inches of snow, both the FEH and Lexus RX330 did well, but the lexus needed the snowchains, while the FEH drove all the way to the cabin and slopes.
I don't know all the technical details you guys are fussing about, all I know is, the FEH drove fine on ice, snow, rain, and any other condition you can think of. I drove a total of 6K+ miles over this month for the holidays.
This means I got regen when i needed it, i did not slide, lose control, or anything of the sort.
Just my $.02
 
  #17  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:51 AM
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Red face Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by wwest
I So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the information via the link you so kindly provided proves to be mostly obsolete.
It is not obsolete to those of us who own the 05/06/07/08 vehicles. And, it is likely true that the regen/hydraulic braking "mix" still varies widely with the infinite combinations of inputs that can be received from the gas pedal position sensor, the brake pedal position sensor, and the vehicle motion sensor(s).

I was trying to address the OP's question, not confuse him with self-centered technical speculation and unrelated details from the Toyota HSD system.
 
  #18  
Old 01-09-2009, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by glennb
It is not obsolete to those of us who own the 05/06/07/08 vehicles.
The 2008 (and newer) has the advanced "intelligent" 4WD system. It is different from the 05-07 models.
 
  #19  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by stevedebi
The 2008 (and newer) has the advanced "intelligent" 4WD system. It is different from the 05-07 models.
Yes, but can someone describe it for us in detail, or point us to a good detailed description..??
 
  #20  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Regen Braking

Originally Posted by Baedarlboo
LOL this is funny.....
All I know is, I drove cross country (Atlanta-LA) On I40, went through about 2 miles of black ice in between New Mexico and Arizona, saw lots of jacked up cars on the side of the road, flipped, jacked knifed, ditched...you name it, I saw it. Car did fine, I had it loaded down with my trailer mounted bike rack, a roof mounted cargo bag, back full of luggage, 110lbs Lab, wife and I. When we got to LA, we made a family trip to Big Bear for some snowboarding, they had got 60 inches of snow, both the FEH and Lexus RX330 did well, but the lexus needed the snowchains, while the FEH drove all the way to the cabin and slopes.
I don't know all the technical details you guys are fussing about, all I know is, the FEH drove fine on ice, snow, rain, and any other condition you can think of. I drove a total of 6K+ miles over this month for the holidays.
This means I got regen when i needed it, i did not slide, lose control, or anything of the sort.
Just my $.02
FEH...Model year..??

The earlier FEH F/AWD had the ability to LOCK the rear drive to the front drive, automatically or under (CAUTION) driver control.

RX330...FWD or F/awd...??

Yes, the RX330 FWD would most definitely need chains. With a simple open center diff'l and only TC for awd implementation the RX330 F/awd might even need chains on all four. Mine does.
 


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