Need some help on an engine malfunction with my 06 FEH (106,650 mi):

Yesterday, I was just leaving work when the engine quit, indicating "stop safely now." Triangle illuminated, which, according to the OM, normally indicates a hybrid issue. Wrench came on, too. However, it started up again normally about 15 minutes later. Went to AutoZone and ran a check with their OBD reader; no codes. The same on the on-board diagnostic; no problems.

This morning, it did the same thing again, only it started indicating the stop safely now and quit about 1 minute after starting (I hadn't even gotten out of the driveway yet). A few tries later, it started up normally. However, this time it quit again about a mile down the road and then it took over 30 minutes before it started up again. Again, no codes. The only other thing I noticed is that where it normally takes about two minutes for the interior lights to go out after removing the key, this time they went out in about 15 seconds.

Other conditions: cooler than normal for AL (about 58 degrees and rainy). Startups have been normal: I give it about 30 seconds after start before I pull out (pure habit). No services due. The battery seems to be OK, but it is the one that was in the car when I bought it (7 months ago), and it was a replacement battery then.

Could this be something as simple as the regular battery, or am I looking at something significantly more expensive coming? Any thoughts from our more experienced brethren is greatly appreciated.

 

Bob, it could serious or something as simple as a relay. Do you have a SGII? The SGII can be programmed to check most of the hybrid systems thanks to the help of CarlD at http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21291 The standard scan tool will not locate the problem.

I had a number of relays fail and I can provide you with information and photos I took here: http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showg...ge/2/ppuser/36 We can start here and replace the relays with just one new $12 relay. I'd replace the Power Sustain Relay (001) first but make sure all your grounds are clean and tight. Three of my relays went bad - 001, 002, and 003. The FEH would start sometimes and it had to be tow to the dealer two times. It runs great now but I keep a spare relay in the FEH just in case. BTW, there were all kinds of code errors but the dealer scan tool could not show a code for the relays. The relays solved the problem and the tech cleared all the codes.

GaryG

 

Gary:

Appreciate the help. I picked up the relay today, and I'll see if that fixes the problem tomorrow morning. The battery checked out fine and, of course, no codes on the OBD reader. I ordered a new SGII this afternoon, so that'll be a permanent fixture from now on. Hopefully, that'll help me keep better track of what's going on.

One thing I failed to mention, which may or may not be a factor: when it quit on me, the weather was substantially colder than it has been the last few weeks over here. I mention it only because this afternoon, when it was about 75 degrees, the FEH started up with no problem and ran fine the rest of the afternoon with multiple stops. One other thing I did was leave it in ICE mode by having either the AC or defroster going. I may lose some mileage, but that's OK until I can isolate the problem. I should see the SGII on Saturday and will put the car back in its normal condition to see what happens next.

 

Gary: Are you talking about your 05? What about your 09. Do you have certain relays that you recommend carrying along in the glove box for the 09?

John

 

The '09 FEH has a totally different Battery Junction Box and different relays. In fact, the Power Sustain Relay has been eliminated in the '09 FEH. I'm still under warranty in my '09 and so far I have had no warranty issues. For these reasons and having roadside assistance, I find no reason to carry relays I couldn't locate without my '09 Wiring Diagrams manual anyway. I may copy the page in the manual and pick-up a few relays after warranty.

The reason I carry a relay in my '05 is because the Hybrid Tech that found the problem gave me a spare when I picked-up my '05 FEH. That relay is used in many places in the Battery Junction Box so if I was stuck on the road, I could try it to get started again. I've since purchased a roadside policy from my Allstate Agent for all my cars, boat and trailer. It cost me about $1200 to find the relay problem and get towed twice for those stupid relays and that's not going to happen again.

GaryG

 

Well, Murphy kicked in again. I put in the relay, and all seemed to be working well. Then this morning, it died again. Unfortunately, I hadn't gotten the SGII installed yet, so was unable to get any additional codes to evaluate. I put it in this afternoon and, of course, the FEH started up normally. So all I can do now is wait and see what comes up the next time it decides to quit. The issue has to be something on the hybrid side, though. I had been using it in ICE-only since installing the relay. Last night, I put it back in normal mode, thinking that all was well. Hah! Anyway, the only other common factor is that is was cold this morning; about 45 degrees. At least that helps me narrow down the conditions somewhat. So, back to the dealer tomorrow. They supposedly have a new guy that is good on Hybrids; we'll see. As always, any brilliant (?) thoughts/insights/similar experiences are appreciated.

Bob

 

Hi Bob

It does not matter if the problem is present for you to program your new SGII from the link I provided to check codes set in the hybrid system. Program your SGII as spelled out in CarlD's post to help you locate any stored codes or returns. I can locate possible problems in my manuals if you can give me the codes or readings from the SGII.

Also, try relocating that relay as I described.

GaryG

 

Gary:

Thanks for the follow-up. I will try the backtrack technique you described tomorrow and see what shows. I did the relay install in position 1 as described in the docs from the dealer. I didn't understand that they could also be transposed into other sockets. I'll give that a shot tomorrow, too. I do have the failure code sheets from Volume Two; I presume that is what you're addressing. Either way, I hope to have more answers tomorrow. This is getting more than annoying. Taking the bike to work at 4:30 in the morning, even though it's only about six miles, is really cold right now. That's my snivel for the week. Thanks again for the help; we'll see what happens.

Bob

 

Well, things aren't any better. This afternoon (temps about 72), I started up the FEH. It ran for about 30 seconds, then quit with the stop safely message and no malfunction codes. I've run the SGII through the entire series of checks per the info provided from Carl's site, and nothing comes up at all. I've also swapped out the sustain relay on each one of the sockets it'll fit, with no result. I'm at my wits end right now, trying to figure out what's what. I may, as much as I don't want to, be forced to go to the dealer. Any other suggestions I can try?

 

Well, after finally getting my FEH to the stealership (since neither the on-board nor the SGII found anything wrong), they determined that the HV battery harness had given out. Sounds weird, but I'm not the wrench working on it.

Has anyone else encountered this situation? Additionally, any idea how many hours (per their shop manual) it should take to replace it? Not that I don't trust them (but I don't), but I don't want to get tagged for unnecessary labor. They originally quoted me $430, but when the bill shows up, who knows?

Any additional thoughts are appreciated.