Again, I admit I have limited knowledge of the FEH. Thus, the disclaimer. So, good on you for pointing out no more information than was originally stated.

It IS safe to say, your post is no different than my first two posts. Which, by the way, I have edited since I really didn't intend it to sound like a personal attack. One must remember, it's not always about them. After pointing that out to Cynthia, I realized that it also applied to me. And that's why I changed my post. My apologies to Cynthia.

 

Just pointing out that the brake system is completely different than what cars before this have had - it isn't your conventional hydraulic system. I admit I don't know exactly how it works. But you only have to drive one of these once to hear the sounds it makes and you would know it isn't just locks.

I just didn't think it was warranted for you to talk like she is dumb.

 

Actually, that third post was just an FYI post. I didn't say anything in that post to make it sound like Cynthia was dumb. But when I re-read my first two posts, I see how you would think like that. And is again, why I changed my second post.

Of course, we're all here to learn new things (especially when it pertains to hybrid technology, as we're ALL new to it). And today, I learned something about the FEH braking system!

 

Hi Bar10dah:

___I do not have any idea as to how the brake systems vacuum is maintained or charges before ICE start up either but considering its rather strong EV mode capability, I can bet those brakes have an electric vacuum pump of some kind vs. a completely mechanical - hydraulic setup?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

 

I guess I'm a little late to the party, but I will also chime in, the brakes pressurize when the doors are unlocked, opened after a period of non-vehicular use, when the brake pedal is pushed down, and/or when the car is started up. Just as they depressurize much later after shutdown. This is a well known experience among FEH owners. (And let me add, it's a personal pet peeve of mine when people chime in on a subject that they know absolutely nothing about.) This is done for a variety of reasons, and the system involved is rather complicated.

C, Sorry to hear that, it definately does sound like a disaster, rather than an error or somesuch, and all things considered, this is probably one of the worst times for it to have happened. It sounds like a PCM has failed, hence the alternating brakes and 4 X 4 system messages, though admittedly, it could be a number of things. (This just seems to be the most likely.) At least (perhaps) on the bright side, you're probably going to have one of the development engineers hear about it, and may even send info to your mechanics to use to fix the problem, since as we learned at the FEH Experience, problems like that get forwarded to the engineering team for now.

My best to you, and you FEH!

 

Wow, you guys have been talking about me all night! (blush) I didn't even *see* the posts that were later edited, Keith, so don't worry, I'm not taking anything "personally". The bit about the "power locks" was pretty silly, but I won't hold it against you.

I also know that I probably shouldn't have "tried it out" (I really drove only a few hundred yards), but I also know that (1) this *ain't* goin' to court (even if I do have to "get legal", this kind of a case actually gets to court SO rarely that it's not worth worrying about, certainly not at this point), (2) even if it were to get to a jury, most people around here (where new-ish cars are the exception, not the rule - the typical Ithaca car is an ancient Volvo held together with bumper stickers) certainly understand the concept of things acting weird in the cold, and "working themselves out" after a few miles, and (3) I doubt I caused any further damage by my little "test drive". I knew the risks, that's why I tried the brakes out as soon as I got out of the driveway, and immediately returned home.

And I am grateful for our second vehicle; as I said, I didn't even ask for a loaner because I don't *need* one. Sorry if I sounded whiny, I was just venting a bit here. I guess there's a lot of that going around...

But I think that this kind of major malfunction of a new vehicle should take some kind of precedence at the dealer's service shop, over people who are getting their snow tires put on or having their car "checked over" for winter. I mean, it's not like this was something I should have to expect, or could have planned for a less busy time. But I have nothing against those people, maybe Ford should just pay their techs overtime to stay an extra hour for something like this (OK, OK, not on the day before Thanksgiving!). I don't even want it fixed immediately, I just want to know what's wrong and get an estimate of how long it will take. (We have certain kinds of cases that "jump ahead" of everyone else in line, habeas corpus proceedings, plaintiffs who are over 70 or terminally ill, applications for preliminary injunctions... the run-of-the-mill civil suit just has to wait if one of these comes along, even though it was "first in line").

I am a bit cooler over the whole thing today than I was yesterday, I am thankful for all of my cars (well, maybe not the broken-down '98 Tracker that needs to be fixed and sold... and we won't even talk about the '64 bug that hubby insists he will rebuild someday... ), for my cats, for all the stuff I take for granted every day (incuding GreenHybrid!), for living in America and having one of the best jobs there is, and most of all for my *wonderful* family. HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL!

(If you haven't seen the clip posted yesterday in the "Fuel and Emissions" forum - "Hypermilers might enjoy this" - check it out! Good for a few laughs.)

 

There are probably only one or two Hybrid trained mechanics at the dealership and it probably wouldn't have killed them to let one of them take a quick peak at it, maybe run a diagnostic and if they could find the problem order the part so that it could be there for Friday. Now, if you are lucky, they will look at it Friday morning and at best have part for Monday. That's probably a bit optimistic but I try to think positive now and then.

Maybe they will do the windshield wiper motor recall while it is in there - save you a trip back later on.

Have a great Thanksgiving all.

Ray

 

lol oh ya you americans our was done last month ;P

now i know what to look for when i check out ford escape hybrids... see if the brakes work!

 

Update - am going to pick up my 'loaner' today (a Taurus, I hope I don't crash it in the snow...). They are saying there's definitely something wrong with the "Master Brake Computer", but they don't know exactly what parts they need to order. Hopefully they will figure that out on Monday (when the mechanics come back to work), and then we'll have to see how long it takes to get the parts.

Good news is, my purchase of the "Extracare" extended warranty (which I know many people think is a waste of money, I did too but my hubby insisted that we get it because of the "newness" of the hybrid system) is paying off - I'm entitled to up to 10 days' rental of a substitute vehicle, for up to $28 per day (evidently the regular "bumper to bumper" warranty doesn't include this), so I'm getting the "loaner" for free. (I had the option of just renting something else and getting reimbursed, but I didn't think I could find anything better in Ithaca on a Saturday for under $28 per day.)

More as soon as I know what the problem really is...

 

The FEH does not use a traditional vacuum booster to supply pressure to the hydraulic brakes. Instead it uses an electrically-operated accumulator to pressurize the system. The sound heard when opening a door or unlocking the vehicle with the fob is the activation of the accumulator. Similarly 4 minutes after key-off you'll hear the system release the pressure.

This system is one reason you must have the appropriate diagnostic tools to bleed the brake system...you have to put the computer into a special mode to allow bleeding to occur.

It sounds like in this case there was neither regenerative or regular power-assisted braking occuring. This suggests a failure in the computers or the sensors used to judge how much regen/friction braking to apply. The residual braking available was the manual hydraulic brake operation...it would require a heavy foot and longer stopping distances as you observed.

Based on a cursory reading of the service manual, I'd guess one or more of the following items might be the culprit:

1. Hydraulic Control Unit / ABS control unit (these two are replaced as a set)
2. Longitudinal accelerometer (measures acceleration/deceleration of vehicle)
3. PCM

Of course I could be completely wrong, too!