Hi All –

This might not be exactly inline with this thread – but as close as I can see without starting a new one.

I don’t know if this anomaly has anything to do with switching to running the A/C, temp change or what. Just wondering if anyone else other than Gary has had the same thing happen?

During a discussion with Gary we were both having the same thing happen – the ICE would not shut down as normal, double-tap, coasting down in L, even coming to a complete stop and – Waiting and Waiting.

I can’t really say that it only happens when running the A/C or even just under normal conditions with the temps going up. I can switch over to the ‘Energy Flow’ screen and there is almost a constant charge to the HV battery – pushing the icon level higher than normal. Also the auxiliary HV battery A/C is running at Max – at least the noise level from the fan/fans is a lot higher. The increase in that level of noise could be contributed to what Gary pointed out, that with the A/C on the air is being pulled from the interior, therefore it would seem to be working harder than usual, because generally that intake sound would be on the outside with the vent door being open to the outside. Kind of like more noise between outside A/C air and Cabin Recir.

The only solution I have come up with to get the ICE to shut down is to shift to ‘N’ and either using light brake pressure, if at ~40 MPH, or a double-tap if I am going slower, to force the ICE to shut down – but it will shut down in ‘N’.

Anyone else having this problem - any answers as to why or solutions?

 

Hi Phillip

Let me clarify some things.

First, I don't think the HV battery A/C mixes air from the cabin. The Traction Battery Control Module (TBCM) controls an air flow door to the outside. When the Aux A/C for the battery is needed, this door is closed and the system becomes a closed system like the recirc system for the cabin.

The noise you most likely hear is the two fans located within the battery. These fans are variable speed that run 40-100%. When the battery temp is high, the fans work harder and make more noise. The fans can run up to 15 min. after the key is turned off, but will not restart till the key is turned on again. BTW, if the fans go bad, it time for a completely new HV battery unit.

It is vary common for me that the traction motor gets to hot during regen in "L" and will not allow the ICE to shut down with the double-tap in "L" or "D". When this happens, I shift to "N" where there is no regen and tap the brake. This shuts down the ICE most of the time.

The problem I was talking to you on the phone about, was with the battery A/C keeping the ICE running when using the cabin A/C on normal recirc.. I had just put a fast charge in the battery and it was also hot outside. The shift to "N" and tapping the brake had no effect when this happen. Even turning off the cabin A/C, tapping the brakes and using "L" would not allow the ICE to shut down. It appears once the battery needs the A/C, it will not start the ICE, but if the ICE starts for some other reason, it will not let you shut down the ICE till it's cool or you turn the key off. There may be a battery temp that is so high, it does start the ICE if the key is on, but it has not happen to me yet.

Does this help or anyone else notice this?

GaryG

 

I stand corrected Kind Sir

 

Hey Phillip

The FEH workshop manuals sure help with these questions. There was a section on noise from the HV battery, that listed posibilities. I read that section after we talked and your post.

GaryG

 

Mine behaves like Gary's post 2 down.

I will say FOR SURE that the A/C compressor runs nearly all the time in weather 80's and above, no matter the cabin settings.

I will say FOR SURE that if you start a parked car that has been in the sun for a while... anything say when the inside of your car, and therefore, battery pack has been soaking in 90'F plus, the A/C will run FOR SURE and for quite a while to cool the battery pack.

Since a parked car in the sun can reach 140'F to 150'F the battery pack can also reach these high temperatures, much higher than allowed during use, and may take up to 15 minutes of A/C ( and ICE ) to cool down to operational limits.

The LGA is nearly useless for me in the heat of summer.
I get use of it for the first 10-15 minutes out of a cool garage... but it's almost counter-productive on 100 degree days.

I installed a LED lamp that lights anytime my A/C is running.
It runs all the time ( well, it cycles, 20 seconds on, 20 seconds off ) every day over about 80'F.... even when cabin A/C is off. You don't need the hassle of tapping wires for this, you can listen carefully and hear the A/C engauge, especially at stops with windows down. You will also see LOAD go up on the SG if you have one.

I just had my A/C serviced ( under warranty ) because my refridgerant had a leak and got low and the A/C ran even more. ( tired to keep up with cooling, but couldn't ) Now, properly serviced... it still runs as described above.

Makes me feel like it's ok to use cabin A/C ( recirc ) more since it's running behind my back ( literally ) anyhow...

-John

 

Hi John

Last summer, and so far this summer, my FEH is parked outside in direct sunlight and has never prevented me from going EV because of the battery. The hot weather and heavy "L" regen prevented me from going EV for a Max of 5 min. the other day while the cabin A/C was on recirc. This has only happen twice.

While I agree that sitting in the hot sun will raise the closed compartment of the cabin to 150F, and increase the temp of the battery, but it will not get as hot as the cabin. Unlike the cabin, the battery is vented above to the outside where the heat can rise out. This may be the reason the engineers located the vent the way they did. If the battery is at 140F, you will get a trouble code after you start the FEH. If the aux A/C is working properly, it should be cool enough within 5 min to go EV, mine does it right away if the system is already warm. Maybe someone here can let us know how long it takes the FEH to go EV in say 110F and up.

Low Gear Advantage (LGA) is only a problem if I use regen to pump the battery up to fast. Like Phillip stated, shift to "N" and tap the brakes to shut down the ICE when that happens. The trick with running the A/C to keep the battery and I cool is to drive roads with few stops and 35-45mph limits. I try to coast in EV from 40-30mph, a little EV at 30mph and ICE on back to 43mph and repeat. Limit FS and keep the battery around 50%. I've been getting some good 50mpg 40 mile RT's in my daily commute with the A/C. My problem is, I tried to go EV up a large bridge and needed LGA to bring the SoC back up in this heat. This is when the battery bogarted the A/C and wouldn't let me shut the ICE down.

GaryG

 

I agree that the A/C does not ( often ) force the ICE on, but mine keeps the ICE on at lights if the battery is too hot.

Colorado is having the hottest June on record with like 20 days over 90 already, and 3 or 4 days over 100 where I live. Normally, the first 100 does not happen until July.

Obviously, I too need the A/C but after a few minutes, can get by with the recirc mode... but more and more, mine is staying on at lights.

Something I'm not used to!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpsman1

I installed a LED lamp that lights anytime my A/C is running.

-John

John – can you pass along the details of how you have the LED wired into the A/C unit. Would like to have that myself.


The last time my ICE stayed on for a VERY long time and could not get it to by normal procedures, I had not been parked in the sun but in my carport @ about 75 Deg. - normal conditions for me. Generally the ICE will be ready to shut down as normal after a min or so but not this time. This went on for at least 10 mins (5-6 miles), before I finally got it to shut down by shifting to 'N' and braking. After that it went back into a normal cycle.


Thanks -

 

The battery IS cooled by the air conditioning. It's not a myth, guys. There are two silver pipes going to a seperate evaperator core in the left rear pillar. It is just like the rear a/c units in bigger suvs and vans. It has seperate evaperator core, expansion valve and blower motor. Which is why I can't belive they(Ford) didn't put a vent in the rear for passengers, since all the piping is there anyway. It would havejust been a matter of adding a duct in the pillar and a vent in the headliner. Oh well.
I have also had my ICE turn itself on while stopped. I'm not sure if it was due to the temp or not. (95 degrees outside). I just got my wifes titanium green/silver FEH a week ago and we love it. I do think it should have outside temp display though. And it looks bare in between the visors. Those minor complaints aside, it's cool. Average econ is 27.8 and climbing, I dont' know where it's going to stop. Hopefully mid 30's.

 

You'll find that the engine can also turn on to maintain the temperature of the catalytic converter as well, not just to run the AC for the battery. ie.. even when its 20F outside, the engine comes on sometimes when you are stopped.