FEH air conditioning
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 720
From: Southeast Coastline
Re: FEH air conditioning
I'll admit it. I was incorrect. I confused the MAX and ECON buttons.
For what it's worth here's what the '08 manual says about maximum cooling:
Also, I did some observation on my '08 FEH today. The exterior temp was reported as 90°F and I expect the humidity was very high since we just just finished a big thunder storm.
Here's the output temps with the system set to 60°F and ECON mode turned Off:
Recirculate Off:
-Full Fan: 47.3°F
-1/2 Fan: 42.6°F
Recirculate On:
-Full Fan: 46.2°F
-1/2 Fan: 41.9°F
For reference, my '95 Mustang had the following numbers (sitting right beside the FEH):
Normal A/C: (Recirculate Off)
-Full Fan: 58.8°F
-3/4 Fan: 54.7°F
Max A/C: (Recirculate On)
-Full Fan: 38.3°F
-3/4 Fan: 37.7°F
For what it's worth here's what the '08 manual says about maximum cooling:
For maximum cooling performance:
•
Automatic operation:
1. Press AUTO for full automatic operation.
2. Do not override A/C or (recirculated air).
3. Set the temperature to 60°F (16°C).
Make sure ECON mode is deactivated.
2. Do not override A/C or (recirculated air).
3. Set the temperature to 60°F (16°C).
Make sure ECON mode is deactivated.
•
Manual operation:
1. Select A/C.
2. Select or .
3. Select (recirculated air) to provide colder airflow.
4. Set the temperature to 60°F (16°C).
5. Set highest fan setting initially, then adjust to maintain comfort.
Make sure ECON mode is deactivated.2. Select or .
3. Select (recirculated air) to provide colder airflow.
4. Set the temperature to 60°F (16°C).
5. Set highest fan setting initially, then adjust to maintain comfort.
Also, I did some observation on my '08 FEH today. The exterior temp was reported as 90°F and I expect the humidity was very high since we just just finished a big thunder storm.
Here's the output temps with the system set to 60°F and ECON mode turned Off:
Recirculate Off:
-Full Fan: 47.3°F
-1/2 Fan: 42.6°F
Recirculate On:
-Full Fan: 46.2°F
-1/2 Fan: 41.9°F
For reference, my '95 Mustang had the following numbers (sitting right beside the FEH):
Normal A/C: (Recirculate Off)
-Full Fan: 58.8°F
-3/4 Fan: 54.7°F
Max A/C: (Recirculate On)
-Full Fan: 38.3°F
-3/4 Fan: 37.7°F
Last edited by MyPart; Aug 13, 2011 at 03:31 PM.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 895
From: Los Angeles
Re: FEH air conditioning
Hi Steve
Ford went to a automatic A/C system from a manual system in '08 and it does not have a maximum setting like the older model FEH. However, you should have an interior recirculate button which does the same as a Max button if your A/C temperature is turned to the lowest temperature setting. With the older manual system, it has a Max setting that automatically recirculates the air and keeps the engine ON with no EV. The Econ button also recirculates air from the interior, but it allows EV. The blend doors regulate how much warm air is mixed with A/C air by adjusting the temperature controls on both systems. The blends doors should prevent passing warm heater core coolant air from mixing in the coolest temperature settings on both systems.
Technically your right about the Max settings button, but the lowest temperature and recir need to be On when testing the ability of the A/C. On the automatic system you just set the digital temperature like you want it and go. The blower fans will also adjust in the automatic setting without manual control.
GaryG
Ford went to a automatic A/C system from a manual system in '08 and it does not have a maximum setting like the older model FEH. However, you should have an interior recirculate button which does the same as a Max button if your A/C temperature is turned to the lowest temperature setting. With the older manual system, it has a Max setting that automatically recirculates the air and keeps the engine ON with no EV. The Econ button also recirculates air from the interior, but it allows EV. The blend doors regulate how much warm air is mixed with A/C air by adjusting the temperature controls on both systems. The blends doors should prevent passing warm heater core coolant air from mixing in the coolest temperature settings on both systems.
Technically your right about the Max settings button, but the lowest temperature and recir need to be On when testing the ability of the A/C. On the automatic system you just set the digital temperature like you want it and go. The blower fans will also adjust in the automatic setting without manual control.
GaryG
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,616
From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: FEH air conditioning
Hi.
I have a lot of experience with this.
1. The hybrids 2005 to 2008 all behave the same, and those are where my expertise is.
2. There are two cooling loops, but one compressor. One compressor, but two evaporators. One evaporator for the dash, and one in the back for the battery.
3. If both front (dash) and rear (battery) loops are open at the same time, you rob Peter to pay Paul. It is just like opening two bathtubs in your house at the same time, the line pressure drops. So in a sense, the compressor is 'slightly' undersized.
4. The temperature drop is less when both loops are open.
5. The temperature drop is less when it is humid out (heat is generated when you condense water).
6. The temperature drop is less at lower engine RPM. (lower compressor rpm)
7. The MAX setting does not run the blower any faster, but it seems like it does because it goes into recirc mode, bypassing some duct work, and if installed, cabin air filter. Thus, there is less resistance to flow, and you get more cfm of air.
8. Like others have said, temperature drop is relative to fan speed. The faster it is moving, the less time it has to cool down.
I have a scan gauge. I can read battery evaporator temperature.
With a full freon charge:
If only the battery loop is open, I get 41 degrees.
If both loops are open, the battery loop evaporator is 48 or 49 degrees.
Clearly robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Also, I recently discovered with a hot battery pack, my engine Idle RPM is faster... by up to 600 RPM! Only if dash is in MAX setting. This discovery was new to me, but makes sense in retrospect.
If you have a full freon charge, and are aware of the above, and still do not have cold air, the blend door is highly suspect and is probably mixing or leaking in some hot air.
Hope that helps!
John
I have a lot of experience with this.
1. The hybrids 2005 to 2008 all behave the same, and those are where my expertise is.
2. There are two cooling loops, but one compressor. One compressor, but two evaporators. One evaporator for the dash, and one in the back for the battery.
3. If both front (dash) and rear (battery) loops are open at the same time, you rob Peter to pay Paul. It is just like opening two bathtubs in your house at the same time, the line pressure drops. So in a sense, the compressor is 'slightly' undersized.
4. The temperature drop is less when both loops are open.
5. The temperature drop is less when it is humid out (heat is generated when you condense water).
6. The temperature drop is less at lower engine RPM. (lower compressor rpm)
7. The MAX setting does not run the blower any faster, but it seems like it does because it goes into recirc mode, bypassing some duct work, and if installed, cabin air filter. Thus, there is less resistance to flow, and you get more cfm of air.
8. Like others have said, temperature drop is relative to fan speed. The faster it is moving, the less time it has to cool down.
I have a scan gauge. I can read battery evaporator temperature.
With a full freon charge:
If only the battery loop is open, I get 41 degrees.
If both loops are open, the battery loop evaporator is 48 or 49 degrees.
Clearly robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Also, I recently discovered with a hot battery pack, my engine Idle RPM is faster... by up to 600 RPM! Only if dash is in MAX setting. This discovery was new to me, but makes sense in retrospect.
If you have a full freon charge, and are aware of the above, and still do not have cold air, the blend door is highly suspect and is probably mixing or leaking in some hot air.
Hope that helps!
John
Last edited by gpsman1; Aug 20, 2011 at 09:41 AM.
Escape HEV'08 El Salvador
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
From: El Salvador
Re: FEH air conditioning
Hello Mr 'gpsman1', may be you can help me on those 2 things:
A) how to program my SG II to read the battery pack temperature (is the same battery pack evaporator?). These codes do not work for me: ‘074522A914’ ‘046285A90614’ ‘3008’ ‘00120001FE70’
B) question at the end of #2 on this other post: https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...es-100f-27142/
A) how to program my SG II to read the battery pack temperature (is the same battery pack evaporator?). These codes do not work for me: ‘074522A914’ ‘046285A90614’ ‘3008’ ‘00120001FE70’
B) question at the end of #2 on this other post: https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...es-100f-27142/
Hello everybody, I own a 2008 FEH 2WD with 33K miles, no Nav. system. I live in El Salvador, Central America, the weather it’s about 70 to 90 during this part of the year. I have a ScanGauge II with the BTh, BTl (battery temp high and low) and the programming for DTC detection from the battery pack
Right now I am experiencing the same problem that ‘aleksey2001’ has posted: car works very fine in the morning –complete hybrid operation after engine warms up- but, once after the battery gets +100F it won’t go EV (on battery) mode but still have electrical assist; I connect the SG II and go around until reach the always get zero codes stored!
Following the ‘Billyk’ check list:
1- I have revised the operation of the MECS pump and it’s running normal; SG II shows MECS temp form 90 to 105 once the problem is present (colder in the morning). Do you think it’s failing? I don’t think so…
2- I cannot assure the air conditioning for the battery pack is working, with the problem present, the A/C lines are not cold nor condensed – I cannot see any trace of leaks. Cabin A/C is fair; yesterday I put the cabin A/C to 16F but it didn’t solve the problem. Does anybody know at which battery pack’s temperature starts this A/C to cool?
3- I dismantled the blend door actuator –even when no codes stored in my SC II; I disassembled it, cleaned it and reinstalled. When you take this apart, it goes to a middle position, once I put the switch to run, it closed the little door. Do you think it’s failing? I don’t think so…
4- Finally, I can hear the 2 fans running inside the battery pack, one time, I removed the little filter and put my finger inside the little door and I felt a lot of blowing air inside; again, no codes stored.
Well, I’ll try to do something else on the A/C and let you know about, but I have ‘heated’ the battery pack up to 109F and only the ‘parking outside all night’ can cool it. Any advice?
Right now I am experiencing the same problem that ‘aleksey2001’ has posted: car works very fine in the morning –complete hybrid operation after engine warms up- but, once after the battery gets +100F it won’t go EV (on battery) mode but still have electrical assist; I connect the SG II and go around until reach the always get zero codes stored!
Following the ‘Billyk’ check list:
1- I have revised the operation of the MECS pump and it’s running normal; SG II shows MECS temp form 90 to 105 once the problem is present (colder in the morning). Do you think it’s failing? I don’t think so…
2- I cannot assure the air conditioning for the battery pack is working, with the problem present, the A/C lines are not cold nor condensed – I cannot see any trace of leaks. Cabin A/C is fair; yesterday I put the cabin A/C to 16F but it didn’t solve the problem. Does anybody know at which battery pack’s temperature starts this A/C to cool?
3- I dismantled the blend door actuator –even when no codes stored in my SC II; I disassembled it, cleaned it and reinstalled. When you take this apart, it goes to a middle position, once I put the switch to run, it closed the little door. Do you think it’s failing? I don’t think so…
4- Finally, I can hear the 2 fans running inside the battery pack, one time, I removed the little filter and put my finger inside the little door and I felt a lot of blowing air inside; again, no codes stored.
Well, I’ll try to do something else on the A/C and let you know about, but I have ‘heated’ the battery pack up to 109F and only the ‘parking outside all night’ can cool it. Any advice?
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 570
Re: FEH air conditioning
I installed a by-pass in my '05 FEH manual A/C system where the two heater hoses go into the heater core under the hood. I did not cut the original heater hoses so they could be reconnected during winter. I even used the same 2 original clamps to hook the factory heater hoses to the by-pass. Here are the parts I used to make the $12 by-pass:
1. 2 5/8" plastic heater elbows to make a U
2. 2 SS clamps to connect a short piece (2") of new 5/8" heater hose to the two elbows.
3. 2 5/8" rubber heater plugs to plug the male nipples on the heater core to keep it clean.
This by-pass kept cold air circulating longer in EV. The heater core stayed cool till I reconnected it in winter and the A/C got colder faster without heated coolant passing through the heater core and A/C duct work. Links to my photos:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showp.../500/ppuser/36
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showp.../500/ppuser/36
I bought everything from my local NAPA store and it hooks-up and reconnects in minutes. I brought a kit to hook a by-pass in Debbie Kates '05 FEH at the '07 Hybridfest and did it in minutes at the Fair with just a screwdriver and pair of pliers to expand the factory clamps.
GaryG
1. 2 5/8" plastic heater elbows to make a U
2. 2 SS clamps to connect a short piece (2") of new 5/8" heater hose to the two elbows.
3. 2 5/8" rubber heater plugs to plug the male nipples on the heater core to keep it clean.
This by-pass kept cold air circulating longer in EV. The heater core stayed cool till I reconnected it in winter and the A/C got colder faster without heated coolant passing through the heater core and A/C duct work. Links to my photos:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showp.../500/ppuser/36
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showp.../500/ppuser/36
I bought everything from my local NAPA store and it hooks-up and reconnects in minutes. I brought a kit to hook a by-pass in Debbie Kates '05 FEH at the '07 Hybridfest and did it in minutes at the Fair with just a screwdriver and pair of pliers to expand the factory clamps.
GaryG
Did you drain the heater core? All of this makes sense to me, I'm just a bit concerned about uncirculated coolant sitting in the core for the next 5-6 months.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,468
From: Jupiter, FL
Re: FEH air conditioning
In '08, the system became an automatic A/C system, so I didn't disconnect the heater core in my '09 FEH.
I'd do it again in the manual A/C FEH, just like I did before!
GaryG
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 27
Re: FEH air conditioning
My question is related to this one. I have a 2005 ford escape hybrid and the air conditioning works good while the ICE is on. When I'm at a stop and the ICE turns off, hot air comes out of the vents.
Response to other posts. The battery fans in my escape went bad, but there were no codes. I downloaded Forscan and had it run a test on my battery and that's when I got thr code for battery fan circuit error.. I replaced the fans and my escape now has a lot more power and the ICE shuts off at almost every stop even in 100+ degree weather.
Response to other posts. The battery fans in my escape went bad, but there were no codes. I downloaded Forscan and had it run a test on my battery and that's when I got thr code for battery fan circuit error.. I replaced the fans and my escape now has a lot more power and the ICE shuts off at almost every stop even in 100+ degree weather.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 638
From: Northeast USA
Re: FEH air conditioning
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 27
Re: FEH air conditioning
On the '05s the A/C compressor is driven by the ICE. The climate control *should* spin up the ICE to keep the cabin cool once the evaporator temp. rises, by the time hot air is emerging. Try it on MAX AC and see what happens. I'm kind of puzzled why it doesn't. Let us know because it could be something else and we have to dig deeper.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 638
From: Northeast USA
Re: FEH air conditioning
So MAX AC will prevent the ICE engine from turning off, otherwise the high temps. may be "normal" until the engine comes back on. Remember that "Pure EV Mode" is not supposed to last for long periods of time - a few miles at most, and then the ICE is going to run anyway.
In one way you are lucky because the electric compressor on the '10-12 is supplied by HV system and is *much* more expensive to replace. At least $450 for a decent rebuilt and a lot more at RockAuto...$750...$1400...and up. For your '05 you can buy one for $200-$250.
However, the system behavior changes because on the 2010-12 the ICE engine does not need to run for the A/C to work. So it can sit there with the ICE off and you can hear the A/C compressor spinning.
In any case, as long as your air is cold (measure it with thermometer!) while the ICE is on, your system is behaving normally. At least until the battery temperature gets high. At that point the '05 should *automatically* run the ICE to run the compressor to cool the HV battery. In other words, the '05 should prioritize the battery cooling, even if it means turning the ICE on to do it. As SKeith has painfully reminded me (mine is a '10), the earlier cars had a better system from a battery thermal management point of view.
Last edited by AlexK; Jun 6, 2021 at 12:32 PM.
