FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
#31
05-01-2009, 08:28 AM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
[quote=wptski;202312]
Somebody posted that there is rear torque up to 25mph. You and DesertDog claim that there's always some loss of traction to cause rear wheel torque. If this is true, I should be able easily see some duty cycle of the 4WD solenoid on wet pavement. A full throttle take off from a dead stop should also generate rear wheel torque too. I question if there really is rear wheel torque on dry pavement with a light throttle and at a steady crusing speed.
I just want proof, either way. Makes no difference to me if I'm wrong.
A bit of work but I could always put my front end on jack stands, jack up one rear wheel and "make" sure to shut off the AdvanceTrac. That should put 100% torque to the jacked up rear wheel. This would be my last resort!
I remembered a long post about this - and then realized that I did the post! Here is a quote:
Since I found that the Edmunds review has errors in describing the AWD on the FEH, I decided to post the following description. It is from the Ford handbook provided to salesmen, which describes the FEH.
Intelligent 4WD System
Escape Hybrid is a front-wheel drive vehicle with available Intelligent 4WD. The Intelligent 4WD System reacts to the driver. It enhances the level of traction and control in various driving conditions. On the highway, the vehicle is driven by the front wheels for efficiency. When increased handling or traction is required, the Intelligent 4WD System actively controls power to all four wheels independently. This provides a balanced level of control.
• Automatically sends power to the wheel or wheels with the best traction
• No driver-operated switch or button, the system is automatic
• Reacts quickly to changes in road conditions, enhancing control
• The system can even sense when wheel slip might occur and will start to transfer power even before the wheels begin to slip
• Each wheel’s speed is monitored 200 times per second
• In normal conditions, the system maintains front-wheel drive
(FWD) operation
Performance and Handling
Intelligent 4WD enhances performance and handling.
• In a curve, the front wheels steer the vehicle to maintain direction, as well as propel the vehicle forward
• The Intelligent 4WD system sends power to the rear wheels, allowing the rear wheels to help propel the vehicle
• This helps improve overall handling by allowing the front tires to apply more available traction to steer the vehicle
Off-Road
When the adventure takes you off-road, traction becomes an important consideration. Gravel, sand, mud and snow all challenge a vehicle’s ability to maintain traction and control.
• Intelligent 4WD proactively compensates for these conditions, immediately transferring torque from front to rear, so all four wheels have power
• This allows the vehicle to maintain traction so the driver can maintain control throughout the off-road experience
Rain, Sleet or Snow
Weather conditions can create a slippery patch on the road surface.
• When the vehicle encounters these situations, Intelligent 4WD responds proactively within milliseconds, redirecting power to the appropriate wheels with the best traction
Normal Driving Conditions
Under normal conditions, Intelligent 4WD operates much like a front-wheel drive vehicle.
• The majority of power is sent to the front wheels
• The Intelligent 4WD system continuously monitors throttle position, steering angle and wheel speed to balance the engine’s output to the wheel(s) with the best traction
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web...vliG1@.f19601f
Somebody posted that there is rear torque up to 25mph. You and DesertDog claim that there's always some loss of traction to cause rear wheel torque. If this is true, I should be able easily see some duty cycle of the 4WD solenoid on wet pavement. A full throttle take off from a dead stop should also generate rear wheel torque too. I question if there really is rear wheel torque on dry pavement with a light throttle and at a steady crusing speed.
I just want proof, either way. Makes no difference to me if I'm wrong.
A bit of work but I could always put my front end on jack stands, jack up one rear wheel and "make" sure to shut off the AdvanceTrac. That should put 100% torque to the jacked up rear wheel. This would be my last resort!
Since I found that the Edmunds review has errors in describing the AWD on the FEH, I decided to post the following description. It is from the Ford handbook provided to salesmen, which describes the FEH.
Intelligent 4WD System
Escape Hybrid is a front-wheel drive vehicle with available Intelligent 4WD. The Intelligent 4WD System reacts to the driver. It enhances the level of traction and control in various driving conditions. On the highway, the vehicle is driven by the front wheels for efficiency. When increased handling or traction is required, the Intelligent 4WD System actively controls power to all four wheels independently. This provides a balanced level of control.
• Automatically sends power to the wheel or wheels with the best traction
• No driver-operated switch or button, the system is automatic
• Reacts quickly to changes in road conditions, enhancing control
• The system can even sense when wheel slip might occur and will start to transfer power even before the wheels begin to slip
• Each wheel’s speed is monitored 200 times per second
• In normal conditions, the system maintains front-wheel drive
(FWD) operation
Performance and Handling
Intelligent 4WD enhances performance and handling.
• In a curve, the front wheels steer the vehicle to maintain direction, as well as propel the vehicle forward
• The Intelligent 4WD system sends power to the rear wheels, allowing the rear wheels to help propel the vehicle
• This helps improve overall handling by allowing the front tires to apply more available traction to steer the vehicle
Off-Road
When the adventure takes you off-road, traction becomes an important consideration. Gravel, sand, mud and snow all challenge a vehicle’s ability to maintain traction and control.
• Intelligent 4WD proactively compensates for these conditions, immediately transferring torque from front to rear, so all four wheels have power
• This allows the vehicle to maintain traction so the driver can maintain control throughout the off-road experience
Rain, Sleet or Snow
Weather conditions can create a slippery patch on the road surface.
• When the vehicle encounters these situations, Intelligent 4WD responds proactively within milliseconds, redirecting power to the appropriate wheels with the best traction
Normal Driving Conditions
Under normal conditions, Intelligent 4WD operates much like a front-wheel drive vehicle.
• The majority of power is sent to the front wheels
• The Intelligent 4WD system continuously monitors throttle position, steering angle and wheel speed to balance the engine’s output to the wheel(s) with the best traction
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/Web...vliG1@.f19601f
#32
05-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
So I find it curious, given that the human eye can only perceive changes at about a 1/24 second rate, that any attempt to monitor Ford's Intelligent 4wd in real time would really just be a random guess of what is actually going on. Maybe if there was some kind of graphing function, you could get a better overall picture.
#33
05-01-2009, 09:17 AM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
So I find it curious, given that the human eye can only perceive changes at about a 1/24 second rate, that any attempt to monitor Ford's Intelligent 4wd in real time would really just be a random guess of what is actually going on. Maybe if there was some kind of graphing function, you could get a better overall picture.
#34
05-01-2009, 10:37 AM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
[quote=stevedebi;202328]
I remembered a long post about this - and then realized that I did the post! Here is a quote:
Since I found that the Edmunds review has errors in describing the AWD on the FEH, I decided to post the following description. It is from the Ford handbook provided to salesmen, which describes the FEH.
Intelligent 4WD System
Escape Hybrid is a front-wheel drive vehicle with available Intelligent 4WD. The Intelligent 4WD System reacts to the driver. It enhances the level of traction and control in various driving conditions. On the highway, the vehicle is driven by the front wheels for efficiency. When increased handling or traction is required, the actively controls power to all four wheels independently. This provides a balanced level of control.
• Automatically sends power to the wheel or wheels with the best traction
• No driver-operated switch or button, the system is automatic
• Reacts quickly to changes in road conditions, enhancing control
• The system can even sense when wheel slip might occur and will start to transfer power even before the wheels begin to slip
• Each wheel’s speed is monitored 200 times per second
• In normal conditions, the system maintains front-wheel drive
That's incorrect! Intelligent 4WD System by itself can't send power to a certain wheel, it just send power to the rear only. This is more a description of what AdvanceTrac does as it uses the ABS to brake the wheel that has less traction and if you have 4WD, it'll control them too. 4WD+AdvanceTrac=AWD, without AdvanceTrac, it's just 4WD.
D-mac:
I'll be able to graph what I monitor with a scope. Nor sure but I think that the PCM is in the firewall from the engine compartment with three connectors. One has a cap on it and the other two don't. I hope the the output to the 4WD solenoid isn't on the capped one because I won't be able to backprobe the connector which is easier!
I remembered a long post about this - and then realized that I did the post! Here is a quote:
Since I found that the Edmunds review has errors in describing the AWD on the FEH, I decided to post the following description. It is from the Ford handbook provided to salesmen, which describes the FEH.
Intelligent 4WD System
Escape Hybrid is a front-wheel drive vehicle with available Intelligent 4WD. The Intelligent 4WD System reacts to the driver. It enhances the level of traction and control in various driving conditions. On the highway, the vehicle is driven by the front wheels for efficiency. When increased handling or traction is required, the actively controls power to all four wheels independently. This provides a balanced level of control.
• Automatically sends power to the wheel or wheels with the best traction
• No driver-operated switch or button, the system is automatic
• Reacts quickly to changes in road conditions, enhancing control
• The system can even sense when wheel slip might occur and will start to transfer power even before the wheels begin to slip
• Each wheel’s speed is monitored 200 times per second
• In normal conditions, the system maintains front-wheel drive
D-mac:
I'll be able to graph what I monitor with a scope. Nor sure but I think that the PCM is in the firewall from the engine compartment with three connectors. One has a cap on it and the other two don't. I hope the the output to the 4WD solenoid isn't on the capped one because I won't be able to backprobe the connector which is easier!
#35
05-01-2009, 11:02 AM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
[quote=wptski;202343]
Hey, I'm just repeating what Ford said. I realize it can't sent power to a specific wheel, and I don't think they meant that the way it is written...
That's incorrect! Intelligent 4WD System by itself can't send power to a certain wheel, it just send power to the rear only. This is more a description of what AdvanceTrac does as it uses the ABS to brake the wheel that has less traction and if you have 4WD, it'll control them too. 4WD+AdvanceTrac=AWD, without AdvanceTrac, it's just 4WD.
D-mac:
I'll be able to graph what I monitor with a scope. Nor sure but I think that the PCM is in the firewall from the engine compartment with three connectors. One has a cap on it and the other two don't. I hope the the output to the 4WD solenoid isn't on the capped one because I won't be able to backprobe the connector which is easier!
D-mac:
I'll be able to graph what I monitor with a scope. Nor sure but I think that the PCM is in the firewall from the engine compartment with three connectors. One has a cap on it and the other two don't. I hope the the output to the 4WD solenoid isn't on the capped one because I won't be able to backprobe the connector which is easier!
#36
05-01-2009, 12:01 PM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
[quote=stevedebi;202346]
That's from Edmond's. In a post above I have a link to a interview with a person from Ford. If you search on his name, you'll find out that he has patents concerning automotive powertrains.
It just like the emblem on a Escape, it says 4WD but on a Edge, it says AWD and it's the same "on demand" system.
It just like the emblem on a Escape, it says 4WD but on a Edge, it says AWD and it's the same "on demand" system.
#37
05-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
[quote=wptski;202352]
From what I can tell, all the Ford crossover vehicles use the same "intelligent" system.
That's from Edmond's. In a post above I have a link to a interview with a person from Ford. If you search on his name, you'll find out that he has patents concerning automotive powertrains.
It just like the emblem on a Escape, it says 4WD but on a Edge, it says AWD and it's the same "on demand" system.
It just like the emblem on a Escape, it says 4WD but on a Edge, it says AWD and it's the same "on demand" system.
#38
05-01-2009, 01:37 PM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
[quote=stevedebi;202354]Yes, I agree but they are tagged differently for some reason.
#39
05-07-2009, 10:12 AM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
I got the wiring diagrams for my '09 FE the other day.
There is a 4WD module that controls the out to the torque control solenoid which is inside the center console. Right now the top trim panel "should" lift off but doesn't want to easily!
The 4WD module has two power sources, one is always hot and the other in start/run. This would mean that the module has some memory to "keep alive" like the PCM but not sure what/why. Both are 10A fuses. Why 10A for memory??? The keyed power also feeds the power steering module and back-up sensors.
I have a fuse adapter set which plugs into the removed fuse socket and allows the use of a current meter in series or a jumper for a current probe. Although not as good as checking right on the output wires to the torque control solenoid, I used a current clamp probe and a DMM. I figure if the solenoid is energized, it'll draw more current from the source anyway.
From a stop, right to the floor, showed no increase in current. From what I've read this should have sent 100% torque to the rear wheels. Either I need to be on the other fuse or right on the solenoid output.
The wiring for the FEH is diffeerent but I'm wondering if the 4WD module is the same. Could somebody with a FEH check their user's manual to see if F11 and F35 are listed for the 4WD module?
There is a 4WD module that controls the out to the torque control solenoid which is inside the center console. Right now the top trim panel "should" lift off but doesn't want to easily!
The 4WD module has two power sources, one is always hot and the other in start/run. This would mean that the module has some memory to "keep alive" like the PCM but not sure what/why. Both are 10A fuses. Why 10A for memory??? The keyed power also feeds the power steering module and back-up sensors.
I have a fuse adapter set which plugs into the removed fuse socket and allows the use of a current meter in series or a jumper for a current probe. Although not as good as checking right on the output wires to the torque control solenoid, I used a current clamp probe and a DMM. I figure if the solenoid is energized, it'll draw more current from the source anyway.
From a stop, right to the floor, showed no increase in current. From what I've read this should have sent 100% torque to the rear wheels. Either I need to be on the other fuse or right on the solenoid output.
The wiring for the FEH is diffeerent but I'm wondering if the 4WD module is the same. Could somebody with a FEH check their user's manual to see if F11 and F35 are listed for the 4WD module?
#40
05-07-2009, 01:55 PM
Re: FEH/4WD/Scanguage-II
F11 - Moon roof
F18 - 4x4 - 10A
F35 - 4x4, 110vac outlet, heated seats - 5A
These fuses are in the passenger compartment fuse panel.
The under hood power distribution box has many more fuses but none are specifically labelled as 4x4.
Hope this helps.
