I guess if we are playing the "what if" game, changing the ICE to a design that doesn't require cat converters at all, would also eliminate the emission's need to keep cat converters warm.

I know there are some very small cars that don't have cat converters. Are there any current designs which would be large enough (powerful enough) for a small SUV like the Escape?

IMHO, an ICE design that didn't require cat converters would be better for a hybrid, than an Atkinson cycle ICE, because the ICE would never have to run (and consume fuel) just to heat the cat converters.

 

Actually that might make sense... Once the engine started the first time then maybe from there on you can't emit and you'd have to cycle the engine to keep the cat warm... but you wouldn't technically have to light it up immediately.

The standard makes sense if you are trying to eliminate the emissions that a cat removes. With the standard you'd only emit those pollutants on the very first start... after that the catalytic converter will take care of it because its hot. If you allowed it to cool then with each needed restart (admittedly fewer) you'd billow out those pollutants again until the cat was up to temp.

Now mind you.... it certainly isn't any good for CO2 emissions or gas usage.

 

gpsman1 — Does the company expect that their Li batteries will be able to take the thousands of deep charge/discharge cycles that a PHEV would require? This is a big problem with Li batteries (or even NiMH batteries), as I understand it.

Tim K — My TCH always starts up the ICE every time you restart the car, even if after only a very brief stop. It will run for only maybe 30 seconds before it shuts off, but run it will.

Stan

 

When it comes to batteries... any battery, it is always a trade off of performace vs. lifespan. Do you want more performance for fewer years?
Or do you want lower performance for more years?

A battery can be seen like a gas tank.
Do you want to sip it and have it last 10 to 15 years?
Or do you want to chug it and have it last 2 or 3 years?

Any battery can be controlled to last 10 years.
Any battery can be used up in 1 year.
It's more about how you use it, not how it was made.

Using it as hard as we were on Day #1, you're probably looking at a 5 year useful life. But how many people get new cars every 5 years?
However that is only MY guess. I am not the official company spokesperson. I was asked to help out as a FEH expert. I am not a battery expert, and want to make that clear.

-------------------------------------

There is a problem with "EV" buttons that lock off the ICE.
The battery, no matter how large or powerful can only give you 25 horsepower. This is due to Ford's design, and cannot be changed.
Can you guarantee you will never need more than 25 horsepower on your daily drive? Of course not. You could have an emergency, at any moment.
The ICE has to be ready for action at any moment.

--------------------------------------
Visit:http://hybrids-plus.com/index.html

 

The EPA test is a cold start, this is why the manufactures are jumping through hoops to get the engines up to operating temp fast.

Engines that don't use cats are really small, remember that the emissions are in GRAMS PER MILE. Ergo a smaller engine has lower emissions just because its smaller.

 

Current LiIon batteries are good for at most 400 complete charge-discharge cycles.

Given the fact that two LiIon producers (Sony and Matsushita) have had recalls on their cells due to overheating/fires in consumer electronics products, and that AT&T has had two LiPoly battery fires in their equipment installations in Houston, I'm not convinced that any Lithium based battery technology is ready for drive-time.

However as these issues are resolved either through better battery construction or new chemistries it's obvious that we'll see dramatic improvements in performance.

 

There are VASTLY different lithium chemistries used for small scale ( camera ) batteries, and large scale ( Industrial or PHEV ). The only thing I think in common is one element, Lithium.

It is worse than comparing apples to onions.
But I digress....

I pulled about 45 amps out of a 330v lithium battery for 3 hours, without fans or cooling systems, and the temperature did not go up at all with the A123 systems cells.

(P.S. not sustained draw, but with EV acceleration, then regen charge, then EV acceleration, then regen charge, at a close to 45 amp charge when stopping, it was close to continuous activity on the battery. I did not "baby" this thing. )

 

Unfortunately, the issue with causing fires is pretty much due to Lithium. So there must have been A LOT of work done on these things to make sure the systems are ready for a vehicle to provide safety.

 

This is an industrial battery. Two incidents 20 miles apart...

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=132365

 

Either yours is too new or maybe they changed the programming. Does yours have the "smart key" where you just push the on button or do you have to turn the key the old fashioned way??? Perhaps for the regular ignition it is different?

My mom has the "smart key" and I can just push the ON button and start driving if there is enough juice in the battery. I've driven my mom's TCH several times without the ICE turning over until I've already pulled out.