Hello. I have been actively searching on the forum for help is replacement of some battery blocks on my hybrid. The car details are as follows:
Model : Toyota Aqua (Prius-C in US) Model 2013. The car was bought in Japan and brought to Pakistan.
Recently, I got the battery check Alarm. The error code is P0A80. I did multiple battery tests with Toruqe and Hybrid Assistant. The reports are attached along with.

Both the apps point to Battery module, 8, however I would need some expert opinion on this.

I am also lookign for:

1) Is there a way of restoring the current battery WITHOUT replacement of battery modules?
2) What is a reliable source for procuring the modules (need to get them shipped to Pakistan).

Any kind of help is greatly appreciated.

Regards,

AK.

 

AK,

1) No. Your battery is destroyed.
2) Ebay, Amazon, salvage yards, etc.

The Gen3 Prius, including the Aqua/C, consistently DESTROY their batteries by the time the battery has generated a code. You will have 4-6 good modules at the end with almost everything in between at 1000-3500mAh of capacity.

The Battery Health report confirms it. Please see the following:



Anything above the red line is bad.

And the following:


Anything outside the bounds at the end of the discharge is definitely bad.

When a SINGLE block fails, which is typical of the 2004-2009 Prius, you see 9 blocks literally on top of each other with a single noteworthy outlier about 1V lower than the others. What you see with your battery is all 10 blocks filling a 1V range evenly. This is 100% confirmation of widespread massive battery damage.

Also of note is that when Block 8 takes its fall, you notice all the other blocks doing the same but to a lesser degree. Again, this is a sign of massive battery damage.

You likely need to replace at least 17 of the 20 modules. Here's a process for limited testing battery module replacement:

Repeat Hybrid Assistant test in "N" and allow the car to continue discharging the battery until SoC is near 0%.
Turn off car without allowing it to charge the battery.
Let battery sit for 48 hours.
Measure all 20 module voltages
Replace all modules outside a 0.05V range from the top, i.e., if your highest battery module measures 7.65V, replace all modules 7.59 and below. NOTE that in some cases, the outermost modules on the ends (1 at each end) may have a voltage notably lower than the highest by up to 0.1V. If that's the case, they are probably fine and should be kept.

Here is test data for a Camry battery, which is also a Generation 3 Toyota Hybrid:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...results-31216/

Another from an Altima (same as a Camry):

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...98/index6.html

Both of the above demonstrate that modules with wildly varying capacity can have highly similar voltages.

Based on my experience (300+ batteries and 30+ of them Gen 3 Toyotas), you likely have 3-4 good modules at the ends in blocks 1 and 10, and you need to replace 16-17 of the others. This has been 100% consistent. NO Generation 3 Toyota hybrid could be reliably repaired by replacing less than half of the modules. For a truly reliable repair, 80-90% of them need to be replaced.

Good luck.

 

Greetings Keith.

Many thanks for the detailed analysis and your expert guidance. I guess, it makes economic sense to replace ALL the modules instead of replacing 16-17, just to ensure peace of mind and cost of re-entry will justify replacement of additional 3-4 modules. What's your opinion? Hope you are able to guide me to a reliable source for the modules...

Also ,is there a chance of corroded module terminals? The battery pack has NOT be opened yet and the car has spent 6 years (140,000+ KM) in different terrains including the last couple of years in very hot and humid climate?


Greatly appreciate your support and help....

Regards,

AK.

 

I don't know if they ship to Pakistan, but you can get very high quality modules from:

https://hybridautomotive.com/product...ry-module.html

I know who does them, and I know they are truly putting in the effort to properly test and recondition the module. It's why the individual modules carry a one year warranty.

Bus bar corrosion is rarely a factor unless you're in a very humid coastal region with salt laden air. I've seen some horribly corroded black bus bars, but the portion of the bus bar that's in contact with the module terminal is always clean copper, which is 90% of the conductive material.

Out of 300+ batteries, I have never seen bus bar corrosion to be the cause of P0A80 or P30XX.

When I am approached by someone with a Gen3 experiencing a battery failure, the only solution I offer is a brand new battery as it's the best value.

 

Many thanks for the expert advice Keith.
I browsed through "Hybrid Automotive" web site. Do they sell Gen 3 modules? All I saw was these options:

1. 2004+ Toyota Prius / Lexus CT200h
2. 2006+ Toyota Camry Hybrid
3. Lexus GS450h/Tahoe Hybrid

Which one to choose. I also tried calling them, there was no response. Will try again later...


Regards,

AK.

 

They may or may not. The differences in the Gen2 and Gen3 modules are negligible. I have personally tested 150K modules from failed packs that test nearly as good as brand new Gen3 modules in terms of the "claimed improvements" in internal resistance.

In fact, used Gen3 modules that are good are very rare. They are like your Gen3 modules - only a few good out of any pack. ALL Gen3 (including 2007+ Camry/Lexus) abuse their batteries. The only viable source for quality used Gen3 modules is from low mileage wrecks. "Low mileage" is < 50K miles.

I frequently run into "amateur" rebuilds where they've replaced original modules with Gen3. Without fail, I'm pulling the Gen3 modules out and chucking them because they're worse than the Gen2 modules.

To give you perspective, I would take a 300K mile pack from 2004-2005 before I would take ANY 2010+ pack with 100K miles on it.

I wouldn't hesitate to populate your pack with quality Gen2 modules.

EDIT: If you can locally source ANY Prius battery with less than 50K miles on it, it's probably your cheapest option.

 

I agree with your suggestion Keith. I will definitely lean towards Gen 2 modules.
Unfortunately, the option of locally available Gen-2 modules with low mileage is practically none. Also there is no reliable source for modules locally....

Regards,

AK.

 

Hi Keith.

I had been exploring various sourcing options for the modules and came across with a replacement option on which I want your opinion. These is a company based out of Hong Kong, offering 14.4V replacement modules for the Prius (3 years warranty). These modules are direct replacement of 2x7.2 V Modules in Toyota and are same as used in Honda. According to them these modules are used in Honda Hybrids and are manufactured in China. Attached are the details....

Would like to solicit your opinion to pursue this options or not....

 

Complete and total garbage. I personally have one of those kits, and I observed a 40% deterioration in usable capacity in 4 months. At 1.5 years, it's behaving like a 10 year old toyota pack.

Those kits exist because the Honda market is drying up, and the Chinese are looking for new markets for their garbage.

The PANASONIC made "D" cell batteries in the Honda hybrids performed dramatically worse than the Toyota prismatic cells. How do you think Chinese made versions of those "D" cells will fair compared to PANASONIC?

 

Thanks for the Feedback Keith. I was expecting same from your side. Just wanted to get an endorsement.
I guess the same opinion applies for 7.2 V Moduels originating from China??