Ok, I'm pretty upset after going with the local dealer this weekend. I hit 30,000 miles, so I took my 2004 Prius in to a dealership (not the one I purchased it from) to get the oil changed, tires rotated, and all the filters replaced. I felt this was a good compromise on the recommended ($500!!!) 30,000 mile service.

I had been planning to bring in my own oil to make sure they used the correct type, ensure that they didn't overfill, and to keep within the confines of the Quaker State warranty. The service rep wasn't exactly patient or polite when I was explaining what I wanted, and initially refused to use the oil I provided for the oil change. After insisting a few times and having another service rep intervene on my behalf, he agreed to use my oil. I got flustered and forgot to request the extra 1/2 quart be returned to me (I was also a little embarrased to ask this).

I asked to also have the SSC-50P work done (ECU reflash + dialectic grease), which took additional explaining, and I also had another warranty issue (door making weird sounds).

After I got the car back, before I even drove away, I opened the hood and checked the dipstick (the car is warm now, as they took it for a short test-drive to ensure that the door rattle was fixed), sure enough, about 1/4 inch over the top dot. A mechanic walked up and was all "what seems to be the problem little lady", and I explained that I was concerned that they had overfilled the oil. He checked the oil three times after I did and insisted that it was low if it wasn't above the second dot. I was pretty sure that was not what I had heard here or in the Prius help file, but since he was the mechanic and I really can't claim to be an expert on cars, I let it go.

Needless to say, I feel extremely uneasy, after consulting the car's manual the oil is indeed in the "Too full" zone (per p 285), and I am not completely convinced they actually performed the recall work.

Here are my two questions:

1.) Will any shop be able to remove the excess oil, or do I have to take it back to the dealership?

and

2.) Is there any way I can tell for sure (going into the diagnositc screen maybe?) that they did the reflash? My milage on the Consumption screen did NOT reset after the reflash (still showing 285 miles for this tank). Is this normal?

I apologize for the rambling rant, but I am really intimidated by mechanics and dealers, and I feel cheated and let down. Thanks for any help!

--
Hillary

x-post to PriusChat

 

I'll start with the oil "overfill". If you have read the myriad of posts at PriusChat about this, and the myriad of posts at PriusOnline and the post here about that subject, it is safe to say the jury is still out, and probably will never return because there is no absolutely correct answer. However the problem with the Prius and oil changes and oil sump quantity is the fact that oil is sold in quarts here and probably is sold in another measure in Japan (metric i'm sure) and as such the car being metric and our measure being English leads to a sump with is speced at 3.9 quarts, but actually will hold 4 quarts without issue. .10 quart is about a shot glass, maybe 2 of fluid. Spread out across the entire surface area of the sump area this amounts to an insignificant "overfill". The tech was wrong, the dipstick indicates that the sump is over the dot, however this is not a condition to worry about. I do full 4 qt. oil changes and have no issues with the "overfill". True overfill would have very noticeable effects. Using 4qt vs 3.5 or 3.9 qt is pretty meaningless. And frankly, I think it is foolish to run the sump below full.

As for the SSC50P, did you bring in the letter from Toyota when you asked for the service to be acomplished? Dealers do not universally make a point of reading the daily alerts from Toyota. As such, we as drivers, are often times much more informed than they are because we read these forums and some members of these forums are also techs and have connections to Toyota documentation and notices. I'm very glad for there presence on the forums and the advice and documentation they provide. Anyway, if you didn't present the recall letter to the service advisor, he probably wasn't aware of it and as such you got the reaction you did. If the dealer did the SSC correctly there should be an "adjustment" sticker under the hood, towards the rear edge of the open hood. Some dealers will put the adjustment sticker on the drivers "B" pillar near the vehicle cert sticker or the tire pressure sticker. They shouldn't put it there, but they do. If you don't see the sticker, refer back to your work order/invoice and see what comments were made. If they directly reference the SSC50p go on with life and do not worry. If something comes up in the future, you have documentation in hand that says it was performed. If it wasn't, then the fault is on the dealer and Toyota.

 

I did not receive a letter; I bought my Prius used about 3 months ago. I did send in the "update your vehicle information" post card, but I still haven't received a letter, when I know that most other people on PC and GH have already received theirs. I didn't want to take in the entire 50 page literature on the campaign because a.) I didn't think it was my job, and b.) I didn't want them to hold me responsible for any problems with the process, since it came from me and not Toyota

The information about the sticker under the hood is what I was looking for thank you for your response.

--
Hillary

 

Hillary,

Bear in mind that knowledge is power. PC, POL and GH are our way of keeping Toyota dealers in check. The vehicle service market is a multi-billion dollar industry. Some of the participants are honest and knowledgeable, and others are at best plain dumb and at worst dishonest. I wouldn't have hesitated to drag in the SSC50p documentation for them. All Toyota service bulletins are formatted identically and I'm sure they would have gone into their Toyota connected system and gotten their copy of the documentation and not used yours, however the official electronic documentation that all Toyota dealers are subscribed to has a very distinct look and layout and wouldn't be impossible to duplicate for some other purpose, but why would anyone?

At the same time, if they prodded about how you got it, TSBs are all publicly available, for a fee from Toyota's tech info site, but people post them online for our use. I can't speak to the legality, however it is a TSB, written to tell techs how to service a vehicle and fix a specific problem. It isn't the next NY Times bestseller and some frustrated author's life long work that is being distributed for free over the Internet. So, aside from any legal issues, TSBs certainly aren't creative and are not distributed to make money on their own, and in most instances aren't distributed to make money on the service it directs either. In other words, I'm not worried about it.

As a vehicle owner I shouldn't have to pay Toyota for TSBs on a vehicle I own. But that is my own gripe. However, lots of other people with access to those e-documents and PDFs also feel the same way and help the rest of us out.

I think your dealer needs a good reminder that you are an involved, concerned and careful owner and they shouldn't cross you because you are going to have dotted your "i"s and crossed your "t"s before you walk into their service department.

There is also a gender issue here. There is a certain anti-female or dumb-woman attitude which exists in a lot of dealerships. You may not be able to change their view of women requesting service on their vehicles but being knowledgeable about your own and your desires for its service and making it plainly known to them is essential. They don't have to like you, but they must respect you, and as such pushing their buttons and showing your knowledge about your car may not earn friends, but you aren't in their department to earn friends, you are there to get your car serviced, not get screwed on price (assuming you are paying to regular maintenance) or have hot air blown in places you don't want it blown. They might not like seeing you coming, but they won't put one over on you either.

The best advice is to get access to their Prius tech and make friends with that person. The service manager and subordinate service writers are nothing more than gatekeepers. Get past the gatekeeper and you will probably receive better service.

Good luck, happy reading!

 

Yes. Just point out you don't want an oil change but to have oil removed to bring it down to (or just under) the top fill mark. My experience is running at 75 percent between the lower and upper 'dot' gives a measurable improvement. I had seen this with our 91 Camry too. I solved the extra oil problem by getting a turkey roasting, foil pan and leaving the car where it would be easy to reach under the front bumper the next morning.

Wearing utility clothing and having some paper towels and using a socket or box-end wrench (13 mm?), I first raised the hood and verified the oil level. Then laying near the left side of the bumper, I reached under, loosened the nut with the wrench. I then put the deep, aluminum pan under the oil drain plug and unscrewed the plug by hand (don't drop it) and let some of the cold oil drain out. I put the plug back in and checked the oil level. Repeat as many times as needed to get the right oil level.

One 'shade tree' mechanic trick is to find a 'clean' curb in an area that has no traffic. Then drive the car via a driveway so the passenger-side wheel is firmly on the curb. You'll have enough extra space that you can get under the car easily and see what is going on.

The other trick is to use the "right hand rule" to figure out which way to turn the drain plug to remove it. Form your hand in a "thumbs down" fist and put the heel of your hand on the drain bolt. The direction your fingers curl is the direction to turn to remove the drain plug (counter clockwise). Given the manners of the service folks you dealt with, expect to find it on very tight. Be prepared to turn that wrench or socket wrench pretty hard to get it initially loosened.

As for the extra oil, take an old bottle with a screw on cap and making a 'fold' in the foil, slowly pour the oil into the bottle. Put the cap on, toss the foil turkey roasting pan, clean-up and drop the old oil at any auto store or oil changing facility. The oil can be recycled. If it is a clean bottle WITH NO WATER, you could save it for later BUT you are more likly to change the oil before you'd have a need to use it.

Bob Wilson