Hi all. A few weekends back I rented a Prius and took it on a camping trip. I wrote up a little review an posted it on my travel blog here. Just thought you all might be interested in my impressions, so if you get a chance take a look! I'd be very interested to hear everybody's feedback.

I did really enjoy driving the Prius, but I can't seem to come to terms with replacing my 3-year-old Mazda 3, which is a great car. The Prius would be a lot more fun on my commute and quite a bit more practical (I have the 3 sedan with a 5-speed), but it's hard to justify to my frugal sensibilities replacing a reliable, almost paid for car with a new one and a bunch more debt. But still, I see them driving around every day and always think, "I want one!", especially while lurching along in stop-and-go traffic with my manual transmission.

Anyway, I did really like the car, and am definitely a believer now. Next time I need a new car I know where I'll be looking...

 

Hi,

I think you left off the tax advantages of a new Prius in your calculations. Sure it is smaller than it used to be and soon enough will be gone. But there are both Federal and State tax advantages. Not to worry, Consumer Reports made the same mistake a couple of years ago. Then some areas have special parking and express lane advantages for hybrids.

I liked your write up but I think the Corolla price doesn't reflect equivalent features to the Prius. Also, the hatchback gives the Prius exceptional cargo capabilities missing from the Corolla. As a suggestion, you might visit a dealer and have them work up a cost for an equivalent feature Corolla and a Prius. I did this when choosing between a used, 2003 Prius versus a Scion xB.

The other minor suggestion is the "15,000 mile" average means a significant number of drivers will be doing "20,000" or more miles per year. I'm at 21 months of Prius ownership with 37,000 miles at 52 MPG. By the same token, an equal number of drivers will be driving less than 15,000 miles per year and for these folks, their driveway 'art' can be anything. Heck, my wife put 27,000 miles on our 2001 Echo, barely 5,000 miles per year. Her car could have been an RV so we'd at least have a spare bedroom. <grins>

One last thing is if you'd wanted to get better Prius highway performance, traveling at 65-70 mph is the key:


Bob Wilson

 

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the response! I agree that the Corolla wasn't the most equivalent comparison; my point was that there are much cheaper options out there if all you need is a new, reliable, very cheap mode of transportation, even within Toyota. You'll see that I also compared the Prius to a Matrix to try and even out the features and found that they hybrid "premium" would pay for itself after less than 5 years, even at "just" 15,000 miles per year, which is what I average.

That is a wonderful graph! I agree, driving slower would increase mileage, however on certain highways in SoCal, you'll get run down if you drive less than 70 or 75. On Highway 15 between Escondido and Temecula, the speed limit is 70, but most everyone drives 75 or 80, with many probably traveling 90. (It's usually the giant raised 4x4s that are going the fastest and weaving around the slower cars, even using the slow lanes.) Anyway, it's a scary place to drive too slowly!

I've plugged in all of my figures, and assuming that I get 51 MPG on average in the Prius, I drive 15,000 miles per year, I get what's left of the tax credit, and gas costs an average of $3.35/gal, I would save only $1500 after three years, and start losing money after that vs. keeping my current car. Of course after 3 more years, my car will be 6 years old, and I'll be itching for a new one anyhow! I guess the big factor is how long I'd want to keep my current car vs. how long I'd want to keep a Prius. That factor makes the calculations a bit more difficult!

 

We've had to deal with such analysis for a long, long time. CNW Marketing likes to use the Chevy Aveo and the diesel advocates always choose manual transmission vehicles. The Prius standard list includes automatic hybrid transaxle, MPG alloy wheels, an aerodynamically significant spoiler, and aerodynamically significant air dam, which are not 'eye-candy' but important for high MPG. The smart heating/AC, electric doors, remote entry and cruise control, all standard on a Prius, wind up being high-end on other vehicles. So it is only fair to include them when comparing base prices.

Seriously, I'd recommend stopping by a Toyota dealer and having them work up a quote for a standard Prius and then an equivalently equipped Corolla, Matrix or even Yaris. You'll have a solid basis of estimate and doing quotes is what sales-critters are supposed to do. Having bought, not just considered, a hybrid makes one a little more persnickety about these details.

In many states, truckers and some trucking companies limit their rigs to 65 mph. We don't have to draft, just follow at a safe distance and let the truck play a "mind game" on the more rapid drivers. They 'see' the truck and the following car is seen as part of the truck, something that has to be passed. After all, tailgating a car following a truck won't force the car behind the truck to disappear. <grins>

I fully understand and the hybrids in three years will be even better. Heck, I wouldn't have bought my 03 Prius except my 91 Camry was taken by the insurance company after an accident. New prices were unreasonable two years ago but I found via Ebay a used 03 for $1,000 under Blue Book and struck a deal. Use Prius prices were soft because of battery replacement fears and I happily took advantage of this fear.

In the meanwhile, some of us are investigating ways to improve Prius performance. Although you hear a lot about 'plug-in', another quieter group have been investigating warm-up approaches that provide a low-cost, high return on investment.

Bob Wilson

 

Personally I don't think it pays to replace cars too frequently, especially if you are buying them new. You are eating the most expensive part of ownership - the early depreciation, over and over again. In your case, you would be getting rid of a perfectly good car just when the cost of ownership starts to turn in your favor (it's paid off). I say drive it for 2-3 more years and bank the payment, then buy the Prius or whatever else you want.

Another thing to keep in mind quite frankly, is that although the Prius looks neat, saves fuel, and has great techno-bling, the driving experience is less than exciting. I don't think it is a car for driving enthusiasts, whereas the Mazda 3 is, so if you like driving (handling, road feel, etc,) skip the Prius. I drive my Prius to work each day to lower my carbon footprint (and because I love the technology), but it can't compare to the feel of my Saab 9-5. The difference in driving pleasure on the open road is enormous.

 

I'll agree that the Mazda 3 is a great car to drive most of the time; excellent handling, great steering and brakes, smooth shifter. However in stop-and-go traffic and city streets with lots of stoplights (which is my daily commute), the Mazda isn't able to shine as a performance-oriented car. Instead I spend a lot of time idling and wearing down my brakes and clutch.

To me the hybrid experience was exciting while on my commute. As I mentioned, it made a bit of a game out of it, and entertained me quite a bit. It was exactly in its element in that type of driving, which is 90% of the driving I do.

But still, I'm too practical to get rid of a car I spent a lot of money on just because something else caught my fancy. My fiance has a 2002 Neon with 77,000 miles, and she also loved the Prius, so I have a feeling she may be getting one a lot sooner than I will! At least I'll get to drive it on the weekends...

 

This is an excellent argument for a used Prius, especially after the 3/36000 warranty ends. The hybrid parts are covered by a longer warranty so it is a low risk. I always plan to replace the tires and lubricants. This is a very affordable way to go hybrid.

With Ebay, you have a much wider market available. If you are patient, do your research, have your bank financing ready, buy from a dealer, and pay attention, you can find a good deal. Bidding is OK but check the fixed price ones too. If a fixed price one goes away without a winning bid, it is OK to contact the seller and let them know what you were looking for. In fact, it is perfectly OK to call the seller to clarify the terms and conditions including tags and how they want to handle payment. End of month usually is when the best deals show up.

Bob Wilson

 

I think I have some similar questions and issues. I am driving a quite a bit older car than you and not nearly as cool (96 Corolla with almost 100,000 miles). I am not really having much trouble with the car (knock on wood), but need to get new tires and some routine maintence. It has been a very nice car for me and not much trouble (knock on wood again). I get good mileage relatively speaking (33 mpg, which is over EPA and that is before really trying any hypermiling). I believe I will be a good but not outstanding hypermiler.

The thing I have gotten on the Prius board is this: you can't really compare the cars (not that i did). But ok why not? I am getting basic transportation, and not sure that I can afford or want and need all those extra little features or even the room. I would love there to be an Economy hybrid (and rumor has it that there may soon be a hybrid Fit). I think frankly this would be a better car for me personally and I would not have to consult the financial analyst here. The thing is that now that the R&D is pretty much there, I don't see why hybrid is a thing for the well off any more. I think they could put it in some other cars, though my understanding is that the Honda system would work better for this than the Prius one as it is more simplified.

Anyway, I'm not sure that our situations are completely similar but one thing is: do you junk a perfectly good high mileage car? Well junk is too strong a word. I would sell it to a college kid that needed reliable transportation.

But my question here is this: is it really a good financial decision?? (I know in the end it is between me and my economic advisors though).

I am also posting this on the Prius side as I think that based on my driving patterns the Prius has a slight nod based on higher amts of city driving. I would go with the Fit Hybrid if it actually comes out in another year and I liked it.

--des

 

Hi,
Until the accident took our '91 Camry, 32 MPG, I was quite happy and would have kept it if the insurance company hadn't seized the title.

It is a question of comparing identical features. Typically the hybrids and certainly the Prius comes with standard features that are extra on other cars. Regardless of whether they are 'eye-candy' or real, a true price comparison matches feature-to-feature.

Everyone would love an economy hybrid without the extra 'standard' features. But if wishes were horses . . .

There are driving profiles that favor the IMA over the HSD.

My former insurance company did that to me.

I'd recommend driving your current ride till the wheels fall off. But when or if it goes the way of all things, look at your resources and requirements and make a decision that works for you. But as to price, be honest about the feature rich, hybrid price versus a no-frills, econo-box. Load up the econo-box with the same features that are standard on the hybrid and you'll be comparing identical featured cars.

In 2001, my wife needed a car and we compared an Echo to the Prius. But her creature comforts added just under $3,000 to the basic price. It was still cheaper than the Prius so we went with the Echo. Given we still have the Echo with only 27k miles after 6 years, that was the right decision.

In 2005, my insurance company invalidated the title and took our 32 MPG Camry. However, a used 03 Prius came within $1,000 of the price of a new Scion xB. We came within $75 of break-even on the first year. Now with 22 months and 38k miles, the Prius was the right decision.

If you've got a good car that meets your requirements, keep it. But if you reach a point where the car has become "End of Life," look at your options and make the best choice for you. Just don't 'sandbag' the economics by claiming a stripped econo-box is the same as a feature-rich hybrid.

Load the econo-box with automatic transmission, top of the line AC/heating, alloy wheels, multi-CD changer, electric doors, spoiler and air dam and it will be a fair, purchase price comparison. Alternatively state that you don't need the automatic transmission, top of the line AC/heating, alloy wheels, multi-CD changer, electric doors, spoiler, air dam and hybrid drive. At least this doesn't inflate the hybrid drive cost with these other features. That is the fair way to make a purchase price comparison.

Bob Wilson

 

I disagree with this statement to an extent.

I have a BMW 325i that is fun to drive and has exceptional handling and acceleration. But it's like comparing apples and oranges.

I consider myself a driving enthusiast, and I'm actually enjoying the Prius more than the BMW at this point. However, like I said, it's like comparing apples and oranges. The BMW is intended for one thing, the Prius another. That being said, it shouldn't take away from the fact that Prius is still fun to drive.

As for the Corolla comparison, I looked at these, as well as the Matrix, CR-V, Civic and RAV-4 before settling on the Prius. The advantages were carefully weighed and the Prius one for many reasons. For one, we wanted more storage space than the BMW had to offer, and secondly the fuel economy and environmental impact. All the other cars had their benefits, such as the way the Civic and CR-V drove, but the Corolla and Matrix didn't even make a dent in the list. Their handling and interiors were sub-par and there was more storage space in the Prius.

That being said, it's all subjective and what's good for me may not be good for you. I love my 2007 Prius though, and I look forward to driving it every single day. On top of that, it's practical because it's a hatchback with ample storage room; not to mention it gets killer gas mileage