Was just reading about the new 3rd gen Prius that eventually will use the lithium battery, maybe by the 2010 model. With plug-ins on the way as well.

If and when Toyota (& others) move in this direction, will the NMH batteries in current vehicles become orphans? I'm guessing they will no longer be produced, and result in eventual shortage and very high replacement costs.

And maybe seriously devaluing the NMH-based hybrids.

Oh no. Although in 35,000 miles this car has been great, I'm wondering if I might get stung in the end...

 

you have a 8 year warranty. There are a lot of things that desere your worries, this is not one of them

 

NiCads, which have less power density than NiMH and also have "memory effect" problems are still readily available, because they are even more resistant to extreme heat and extreme currents and have better tolerance for abusive charging. As NiMH became popular and started displacing NiCads, that just lowered the prices of NiCads.

There are applications where NiMH cells are more advantageous than LI, and once LI becomes more available cheaply, the demand for NiMH will go down, pushing down prices with demand, keeping demand high enough to keep them around a long time. NiMH have an easier time with temp extremes, and very high currents than LI, and have simpler current-based charging than LI. NiMH technology occupies a pretty safe market between NiCad and LI technologies.

The basic cell that makes up the NiMH 6-pack units that make up the batteries for the Toyota hybrids is a standard size cell for both NiMH and NiCAD, and will be made in both technologies for a very long time. It is easy enough to replace the cells, so there will be aftermarket batteries available for a very long time after Toyota and others have moved on to LI cells.

-- Alan

 

I thought car companies were required to manufacture replacement parts for their cars, for 10 years. After that people can buy duplicate parts from NAPA, Autozone and other auto stores. I'm sure Toyota will have the replacement 7.7 volt plug in cell pack replacements anytime you need them. They are probably the same ones in the Prius as the TCH. I could be wrong but heard the pack price is about $100 to $125. I forget due to that being over a year ago.

The local Toyota tech told me he had replaced only 3 plug-in packs in the many Prius they had sold over many years. No TCH packs yet but it was six months ago that I spoke with him.

 

As an extreme example, you can get 6V electrical components for ancient Volkswagen bugs and "classic" MG's. While it's unlikely that many of us will be driving 2009 TCH's in the year 2039, I don't think battery availability will be an issue for a long, long time.

And if NiMH batteries do become scarce, it seems awfully likely that some enterprising soul will come out with an "LiIon -> NiMH" converter box. If there's a dollar to be made, someone will make it!

 

Life's too short to worry about a possible future battery technology possibly impairing the value of a car.
Cars only last so long, in any event.
The speakers in the car sound great, turn on a nice radio station and enjoy the road.
Don't fret the small stuff.

 

I would think that when the NiMH batteries expire, there would be a fairly easy "upgrade path" to the Lithium ion types. What I've seen on the subject has indicated that refinements in the materials and manufacturing processes make the Li Ion units cheaper and more reliable. To change over the batteries would at most require a minor software / firmware upgrade other than the cells themselves. There are supposed to be some rather dramatic efficiency gains with the Lithium cells: Mileage and distance gains more than doubling, according to some articles.

 

I'm with you on the possible replacement lithium ion battery pack. That would work if they keep the voltage the same. I think the charge circuit comes with the pack to protect the batteries as does our current TCH packs.

After all their near half the weight, double the amperage output and charge similar to the NiMH packs we have now. I do know the standard lithium's are very sensitive to over charging. I'm sure Toyota will have all that figured out when the time comes.

It would be costly for Toyota to change around the (288 dcv) voltage their now using in the Synergy engine. Then again they may do something to keep people from putting the lithium pack in the older TCH. After all these companies are out to sell new cars and to make profits.

My guess would be up to a 10 mpg increase over our current mileage using these ion batteries. We should hear more in early 2010 when the new TCH comes out. I'm hoping it's in the first quarter of the year and with lithium batteries.

Like you say if toyota don't make the lithium replacement packs some aftermarket outfit would.

 

That reminds me of my dad's old 40" Chevy Deluxe. He got mad after 11 years when the water pump started leaking. He traded it in for a '52 Pontiac. After 2 years the Pontiac squeaks and rattles, poor power from that lead weight straight 8 engine. He traded up for a '54 that was a little better, even had a hydromatic transmission.

Years ago, I overheard a light bulb salesman talking to a grocery store manager. The bulb man said, that they are cutting back on the hours the bulbs last. The bulbs made in the last few years were lasting way to long and they were losing money on them.

No doubt the American car companies got this same thing down pat. This is another way the foreign car market picked up lots of new customers, by building a long lasting car.

 

I don't think they will be "orphaned" per say. After all this time with fuel injection, one can still get rebuilt carburetors, and carburetor rebuild kits. But by the same token, I seriously doubt that there will be any retrofit kits for the lithium batteries either. Are there any retrofit kits to make carbureted cars into fuel injected cars? Not that I know of. Way too much would have to change. Besides, Toyota wants to sell new cars, they really don't want to encourage you to keep your "old" one, when new technology comes out.