I'm sorry, but quiet and refined are not adjectives that make sense with SUV any more than smooth and luxurious makes sense applied to roadsters, or that high performance and nimble makes sense applied to vans. SUV is a concept for off-road agility and bad terrain capability, and, especially, great recreational abilities.

I am delighted to see SUVs used as SUVs, or even as routine transport for those who also use them recreationally (off-road). I am disgusted by the marketing asses who established a very false image of safety and utility around a concept that is undeniably less safe for everyone (occupants as well as non-occupants) than virtually every other class of common vehicles except for high-performance sports cars, large vans and full size pickups, and less utilitarian (cargo volume, weight capacity, and passenger count) than many other similar and smaller vehicles.

But go ahead and fool yourself into thinking vehicles with pathetic collision avoidance capabilities (cornering and braking and roll-over resistance) with abysmal interior noise levels (compared to sedans) are quiet and refined (or, did you mean by comparison to the ridiculously noisy and unrefined full sized SUVs?).

OK, I'm done ranting now. Let me have what I deserve.

-- Alan

 

Electric motors can produce huge amounts of torque and they do this almost instantly (unlike internal combustion engines).

The limiting factor at this time is the battery technology. More torque = more volts/amps needed at much higher drain on the battery.

 

Alan..wow...sorry to have gotten you started! I have always, until 2 or 3 years ago, been a hugh oponent to SUVs. I had no reason to go off road, and certainly couldn't justify the extra mass, lack of safety (rollover potential?), and higher fuel consumption the SUVs provided...

Then, I drove a Highlander....I viewed it as a Camry station wagon on steroids...not really an SUV, I maintained....Being homeowner, and all around handy guy, I often need more than a sedan trunk for projects, and the Highlander fit my needs very nicely..Although I often felt it was too big, I do appreciate the higher seating point. The Matrix is an interesting little wagon, but seems to me to be very crude compared to the Highlander, hence my reference to quiet and refined.

So, I guess I agree with you, "...quiet and refined are not adjectives that make sense with SUV ..." I don't consider the Highlander a true SUV...I guess I should have said I would like to see a midsize tall seating station wagon, with Hybrid Synergy Drive.

I currently own an 05 Highlander V6 and an 07 TCH. Very nice combination. The wife drives the Highlander to work (5 miles RT in town) 3 days a week, every other week (car pools), and we use it for Home Depot runs when needed, otherwise the TCH is our driver for all other trips.

I think we are on the same page...

 

My guess might be the Toyota Avalon & the Lexus ES . It would be an easy step to upgrade the Avalon & the Lexus ES using the same technology, layout, etc as the Camry. And the Avalon is a good seller in the US. And as far as the power/MPG tradeoffs, I'd place it somewhere in the middle between the Camry and the Lexus GS 450H.

 

Please don't be sorry. This is fun for me! I'm sorry if it isn't fun for you.
Probably pretty close! However, for those who doubt the "costs" of an SUV, read on. Keep in mind that the previously referenced asses can be blamed for getting the Highlander Hybrid to our market before a Sienna Hybrid, so I am not criticizing the choice to buy a HH over a gas Sienna, as I would possibly do the same today.

A base Highlander 2x4 V6 SUV (H) is compared to a base Sienna minivan (S). They both have the identical 3.3L engine:

The Sienna is 0.6" taller (68.9" S, 68.3" H), 15.4" longer, and 5.5" wider. Sienna has 2" more headroom, 5.9" more shoulder room, and 2.2" more legroom. It can sit 8 adults, vs 7 for the Highlander, although I would say its more like 7 + 1 kid for S and 5 +2 kids for H, for any reasonable length trip.

That trip in the Sienna will be more comfortable due to a longer wheelbase (12.4"), and a lower center of gravity, and more space for each of the eight people than the seven in the H, plus a whopping more cargo volume behind the rear seats (43.6 (S) - 10.5 (H) = 33.1 cu. ft.)! If it is cargo only, then the difference is even more: Sienna by 68.3 cu ft more total cargo volume!

Interestingly, with a lower CD (0.30 S vs 0.34 H) and a larger fuel tank (20 S vs 19.1 H) and a better FE (19/26 S vs 18/24 H), you get much farther between fill ups. With the better turning radius (36.8' S vs 37.4 H) you will have an easier time parking, too.

At least the Highlander will do better off road (except that both have the exact same ground clearance, as well as the same towing capacity), and certainly the Highlander will cost much less having so much less capability; except the Highlander is $3100 MORE!!!!

OK, I can understand why someone would pay three grand more for a sport utility vehicle that has less sporty handling, less utility (by far), less convenience for loading (especially the rear seats!!!!), and less efficiency: after all, it has more coolness!

-- Alan

 

I also own a Highlander (wish it was a Hybrid but I ain't paying no 35 grand for one).

I love the Highlander. It drives great and is very comportable.


BTW.

I would like to see a RAV4 Hybrid.

Should be based off the Camry powerplant.

 

Isn't Toyota looking into a pluggable (recharge at home) hybrid? Maybe that'll be the next one to come out..

 

Good point. This is the technical hurdle at the present moment. Electric motors do produce massive amounts of instant torque (this is why our TCH have traction control!), but to have the battery power to sustain this is the problem.

Who knows what product will see the HSD next, but again I just keep thinking of all the soccer moms in minivans, and all the tacomas I see on the road. If there was a HSD option for these two models toyota will really make a killing.

 

here

I saw this in a documentary awhile back on tv. They put a larger battery in the prius and are getting over 100+mpg with it. At the time of filming the inventors were actively trying to get Toyota's interest in the product.

 

Dollars to doughnuts it's a hybrid Sienna in March of 2008 along with the renewal of the Sienna line as a 2009 model. Honda has already announced a diesel Ody so Toyota will not let that go unanswered - especially since a hybrid minivan exists already in Japan. It just has to migrate the technology.

After that the new Prius should be out in Oct 2008 also as a 2009 model.

The difference is that if the TSH does come out in early 2008 it will have the current HSD technology either as a 2.4L ( I hope ) or with one of the V6 HSD's. The new Prius will have completely new technology. It will be the launchpad for the following 5 years+.

It appears that a diesel Tundra and/or Tacoma may make it to market before a hybrid version does. For the reasons noted priorly current HSD technology doesn't lend itself well to heavy 'body-on-frame' vehicles. GM's new dual mode system for it's trucks does work well apparently. This may be the direction Toyota may end up going as well. ( unless they have some dramatic new technology underwraps - to be sprung on the detroiters ).