An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
#31
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by wcmack
I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this point. It seems you feel that hybrid technology is not a real step forward, but rather a sales ploy to get people to buy more cars at perhaps higher prices. I and everyone else (including you apparently) got taken in when we chose a hybrid.
I just don't agree. As I said earlier, IMHO hybrid technology is a good and serious evolution beyond the ICE technology that has sustained the auto industry for over 100 years. And I feel good about being a relatively early adopter of that technology. Should I be smug about it? Of course not. Should I feel duped? No, I can't see it.
I hope and expect that the auto industry will continue to develop and incorporate new propulsion technologies in my lifetime that will make my current FE look incredibly feeble. If I can, I will drive vehicles that include those technologies as well. Call me gullible or smug if you want. But that's what I'm gonna do...
I just don't agree. As I said earlier, IMHO hybrid technology is a good and serious evolution beyond the ICE technology that has sustained the auto industry for over 100 years. And I feel good about being a relatively early adopter of that technology. Should I be smug about it? Of course not. Should I feel duped? No, I can't see it.
I hope and expect that the auto industry will continue to develop and incorporate new propulsion technologies in my lifetime that will make my current FE look incredibly feeble. If I can, I will drive vehicles that include those technologies as well. Call me gullible or smug if you want. But that's what I'm gonna do...
No need to feel duped, I don't. But chances of me buying another hybrid is small unless I see real improvement in the numbers.
#32
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by livvie
Other non-hybrid cars have seen jumps of 15% from prior model years in fuel effeciency. So again, it's not that much... should be higher.
You also previously implied that there were other choices in vehicles that had cleaner emissions, I was under the impression that the TCH and most other hybrids rank quite high.
Not saying shooting for a higher goal is wrong, I'm just trying to understand how you have decided that hybrids are an underachievement compared with other options?
#33
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
We're bandying 15% around like it's gospel. Now that I've had the TCH for a while I've been average 43 - 44 mpg pretty consistantly lately. I have trouble believing that I'd be averaging 37 - 38 mpg if I were driving an LE Camry in mixed highway/city driving.
Rather than chastising the auto companies for not putting out 100 mpg cars yet, I'll reserve the right to be duped and remain happy with my car. And the TCH is a lot more car than a CRX. The goal shouldn't be to simply get the highest mileage, but to produce a car that people would wish to drive with excellent economy for the size. Yes, I could get better mileage from some other cars, but I wouldn't want to drive them, nor would I buy them.
Rather than chastising the auto companies for not putting out 100 mpg cars yet, I'll reserve the right to be duped and remain happy with my car. And the TCH is a lot more car than a CRX. The goal shouldn't be to simply get the highest mileage, but to produce a car that people would wish to drive with excellent economy for the size. Yes, I could get better mileage from some other cars, but I wouldn't want to drive them, nor would I buy them.
#34
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by Droid13
You also previously implied that there were other choices in vehicles that had cleaner emissions, I was under the impression that the TCH and most other hybrids rank quite high.
#35
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by wcmack
Yes, hybrids are priced with a premium, and this probably will make their market penetration slower than otherwise. But the companies that developed this technology have an investment to recoup, and wide market acceptance is not assured.
If my interpretation is correct, the bottleneck in production is the hybrid batteries. You can't make a long lasting hybrid battery pack by just assembling together a random collection of NiMH cells. Instead, a pack is made up of cells that are matched (by actually testing them individually) for their charge and discharge characteristics which is a time and labour intensive process given the number of cells required for a hybrid battery pack. Presumably the capacity to make hybrid battery packs will increase over time making it possible to build hybrids for a lower price point.
#36
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
If my interpretation is correct, the bottleneck in production is the hybrid batteries. You can't make a long lasting hybrid battery pack by just assembling together a random collection of NiMH cells. Instead, a pack is made up of cells that are matched (by actually testing them individually) for their charge and discharge characteristics which is a time and labour intensive process given the number of cells required for a hybrid battery pack. Presumably the capacity to make hybrid battery packs will increase over time making it possible to build hybrids for a lower price point.
I just do not like to hear things like this, if anyone of us with our TCH cars now have a battery failure we may be sitting for 2-3 months waiting for one.
I just do not like to hear things like this, if anyone of us with our TCH cars now have a battery failure we may be sitting for 2-3 months waiting for one.
#37
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Toyota claims there was no battery failures on Prius yet, also there will be plenty of slightly used batteries from wrecks so I think you worry about nothing. There is not much that can fail inside battery especially that you would require total failure of large number of cells for the pack to not work anymore, outside of some broken connection since all cells are in series and one open circuit would break the whole pack. There is much bigger chance of mechanical failure of transaxle, one of MG's or all suporting electronics and converters. Also I really don't think the batteriies have to be matched since battery pack operates at 60-80% of full charge range and IMO part of the reason Toyota did that is to make sure no individual cell is overcharged or discharged to zero even if the cells are grossly missmatched.
#38
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by Droid13
Would you have specific examples? I'd be curious what vehicles you are referring to? I know there are examples, but I can't think of any that compare well.
You also previously implied that there were other choices in vehicles that had cleaner emissions, I was under the impression that the TCH and most other hybrids rank quite high.
Not saying shooting for a higher goal is wrong, I'm just trying to understand how you have decided that hybrids are an underachievement compared with other options?
You also previously implied that there were other choices in vehicles that had cleaner emissions, I was under the impression that the TCH and most other hybrids rank quite high.
Not saying shooting for a higher goal is wrong, I'm just trying to understand how you have decided that hybrids are an underachievement compared with other options?
As for clean... it was the Honda Civic GX that was the cleanest.
HCH I vs HCH II... not a big difference there... should have been more.
#39
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by Orcrone
We're bandying 15% around like it's gospel. Now that I've had the TCH for a while I've been average 43 - 44 mpg pretty consistantly lately. I have trouble believing that I'd be averaging 37 - 38 mpg if I were driving an LE Camry in mixed highway/city driving.
Rather than chastising the auto companies for not putting out 100 mpg cars yet, I'll reserve the right to be duped and remain happy with my car. And the TCH is a lot more car than a CRX. The goal shouldn't be to simply get the highest mileage, but to produce a car that people would wish to drive with excellent economy for the size. Yes, I could get better mileage from some other cars, but I wouldn't want to drive them, nor would I buy them.
Rather than chastising the auto companies for not putting out 100 mpg cars yet, I'll reserve the right to be duped and remain happy with my car. And the TCH is a lot more car than a CRX. The goal shouldn't be to simply get the highest mileage, but to produce a car that people would wish to drive with excellent economy for the size. Yes, I could get better mileage from some other cars, but I wouldn't want to drive them, nor would I buy them.
As for my CRX... let's compare it to another apple instead of an orange. I was just using my example to show that back in the 80s we had cars already goind 40+ mpg. The insight does come close to me being impressed in that you can push an insight to double that figure... but with a lot of effort so it's more the driver than the car.
#40
Re: An Idiot @ WomanMotorist.com
Originally Posted by Orcrone
Actually, the Prius and TCH are two of the cleanest vehicles available. I saw a government report and they headed the list. If I can remember the link I'll post it.