[/Begin thrashing deceased equine]

This is why I asked what methodology CR used for determining the "hybrid premium". I agree with your logic that the TCH is more rightly compared to the V6 Camry than a 4-cylinder version, but there are still other factors besides sticker price, including:
- How much discount can you get? I paid $1,000 over invoice for my TCH back in April '08. Now people are paying full MSRP or more. But you can still by a non-hybrid car for $500 over invoice or less. When I bought, figure I paid a $500-$1,000 "penalty" through loss of discount.
- Are there any tax incentives? The federal tax credit for Toyotas is history, but here in Illinois I received a $1,000 credit from the state for my hybrid purchase. Others who purchased earlier got the fed but not the state credit, those who purchase now in Illinois get NO credits, but other states have programs of their own.
- How much resale difference will there be? Any evaluation of the overall cost of a piece of equipment has to include resale/salvage value. I keep my cars 10 years, so at the end of that lifespan the difference will be minimal, but others who change vehicles every few years may see a more significant resale benefit, possibly outweighing a portion or all of any premium they may have paid.

My personal decision was based primarily on economics. I'm happy to be helping the environment, and I might have paid a small premium for the hybrid to know that I'm helping reduce dependence, blah, blah, blah. But all in all I figure I bought the car with NO net increase over a standard engine model, and the long-term gas (and maintenance) savings are a bonus.

[/end dead horse beating]

 

I bought my cars over the last 25 years by looking at the city mpg on the EPA window sticker. When working in Dallas most all my driving was in the large city and surrounding areas.

I'm not much for these manufactures saying their cars gets 30 or 35 mpg. They are talking highway and not combined gas mileage.

It's easy to see below why I choose the TCH over the other models. The hp figure may look low but the TCH has plenty of power.

CAMRY

4-cyl 158 hp, 21 mpg city

6-cyl 268 hp, 19 mpg city

4-cyl electric 187 hp, 33 city

 

I'm surprised to see that much difference.

Did you add the stability control AND the traction control as well as the keyless ignition?

 

This is in Canada and we don't get the granularity of option you US guys get. On a gas only LE, there are 3 packages available.
1) Heated leather seats (~$1800)
2) Conv pack; VSC, TRAC, 8 way drivers seat, and the fancy rear view mirror (~$1800)
3) Touring; includes Conv pack, adds 16" Al wheels, garage door opener, moonroof and vanity mirrors. (~$3600)

No SmartKey available. There are a few other goodies which would be missing as well.

 

Ditto on all of that.

And to repeat what others have posted on other threads here, the car actually accelerates a lot more quickly than it "feels" like it does. I wonder whether this is because, with the continuous drive ratio variation provided by the PSD, the acceleration builds up more gradually rather than with the "jerk" provided by a regular auto trans. When you really step on it, there's no "kick in the pants" like we're used to getting, but when you look out the side glass, you're passing cars more quickly than you thought and when you look at the speedometer, you see that suddenly you're going faster than you knew.

 

The Atkins Cycle engine is basically designed for torque at lower rpm. With the variable cam it can still rev up.

The thing I like most about the hybrid, is it's quick response from the electric motor like when passing another car out on the highway. Well that is rare for me as you know.

Your right Smilin' Jack, the split power device gives the engine a smooth response when you need power.

I found this below with the Camry Hybrid torque details.

The four-cylinder engine produces 147 horsepower, while the two electric motors boost total horsepower in the Camry Hybrid to 192. Engine torque peaks at 137 lb-ft at 4000 rpm but the electric power can deliver 203 lb-ft of torque from startup to 1500 rpm.

 

YMMV, my experience has been to use the highway rating of the 1985-2007 EPA ratings to estimate my average @ +3% and overall range of -10% to +20% for my across town driving (highway). For my driving, I would anticipate averages of

4-cyl 158 hp, 35 mpg
6-cyl 268 hp, 32 mpg
4-cyl electric 187 hp, 39 mpg

This is part of the reason I asked what experience people had using EPA results to model non-hybrid -> hybrid FE, a while back.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...numbers-18070/

I assume from the posts of rburt07 and Smilin' Jack that the 2008+ EPA City estimates correlate well to their observed FE. (?)

 

Well unfortunately for me, the tax breaks are gone and there are really no discounts offered on hybrid models these days. However, Toyota did lower the MSRP on the hybrids to somewhat offset the lack of tax rebate.

I was offered a fully loaded V6 XLE for $28,500 or a comparably* equipped Hybrid for $31,000. So for me, the real world price premium for the Hybrid engine was $2,500. (* the V6 XLE has more power and some other niceties that the Hybrid doesn't have such as fog lights and wood grain look).

If gas averages about $4 a gallon for the life of my car (probably on the low side) and the hybrid gets about 1/3 more MPG than the conventional engine, then, based on how I drive, it will take about 5 years for me to make up the difference. Obviously I am not buying the hybrid to save money on gas.

However, when it comes time to resell my car, I am confident that the hybrid engine will probably raise my car's value by about $1,000 or so, maybe more, maybe much more if the price of gas is much higher when it comes time for me to sell.

Also, the hybrid engine is an insurance policy against $10 /gallon gas. Hopefully it will not happen, but if it does, I will be ready.

 

I would be surprised if we don't see $10/gallon gas by the time I sell my 2007 TCH (probably around 2014 to 2015, unless I give it to the kid). My recollection is that the price of gas outpaces inflation by about 35% historically, over the last five years. I think I saw that figure given on a Modern Marvels show a while back, so my recollection may be fuzzy.

 

Well I do hope to have my 2009 TCH for a long time to come, but if they can figure out a way to make fully electric cars practical, I might be willing to part with my Camry Hybrid prematurely for the thrill of driving without burning any gas at all.