Hybrids... the crook catching machine
#11
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
Top tier and tier 1 are generally considered one in the same, tier 1 as opposed to tier 2. It is still mostly marketing since the EPA standard is the supposed tier 2. The website you linked to is not an EPA site, it's a Top Tier promotional site. I will gladly be proven wrong, but I maintain that Top Tier (tier 1 or whatever) is an industry self standard not a government standard and therefore is suspect and can be inconsistent, as the OP claims.
#12
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
People can knock the Top Tier/Tier 1 concept all they want. I learned about it here on the Green Hybrid boards, and we monitor every tank of gas. If I fill up at Shell (Tier 1) I get 35 mpg. If I fill up at Arco (discount) I get 28-30 MPG.
It's a no brainer. You can reset your MPG gauge and see the results in minutes... and those results stay consistant through the entire tank.
Oddly, there also seems a great deal of variation in Tier 1... and so far for me Shell has been the winner.
The thing you have to be wary of is a station selling gasoline that is supposed to be Tier 1 but is actually discount. We've gotten stuck with that a few times now... but if we go back to a reliable station we are right back to our 35 MPG.
It's a no brainer. You can reset your MPG gauge and see the results in minutes... and those results stay consistant through the entire tank.
Oddly, there also seems a great deal of variation in Tier 1... and so far for me Shell has been the winner.
The thing you have to be wary of is a station selling gasoline that is supposed to be Tier 1 but is actually discount. We've gotten stuck with that a few times now... but if we go back to a reliable station we are right back to our 35 MPG.
#13
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
I think the Shell additives must have more energy in them or something. I have monitored every tank from the time the car was new, and Shell outperforms almost everthing else to the extent that you can measure the difference even accross tank fill differences.
#14
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
Looks like I’m going to have to get medieval, like science 101 (burning the peanut). A peanut contains about 2.5 BTU of energy, that energy is the same regardless of where (country or state) the peanut comes from. Of course the salted, beer, honey roasted, and peanut brittle contain additives, but the basic peanut is what I’m talking about. In the world of gasoline and refining, the additives cannot change the amount of BTU that gas can produce. And my final, nothing to do with gas, How many times have you seen ads for skin moisturizers which read (penetrates the skin, soothing under the skin moisturizing etc…)… no matter what the marketing ads say, you will never find an over the counter moisturizer that penetrates the skin, because if it did it would be considered a drug (and need a prescription). How many of you are reading the moisturizer bottle right about now?? hahaha
I’ve never tried tier 1… but I will.
I’ve never tried tier 1… but I will.
#15
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
Lots of possibilities without actually changing BTUs. Better temperature stabilization, better mositure or water vapo(u)r removal, a way to improve vapo(u)rization out of the fuel injectors (rough analog to a wetting agent, but for fuel), etc.... lots of possibilities.
#16
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
True, actually way back when i was in high school, we would put moth ***** in our gas tanks. The naptha would (supposedly) increase the volatility of the fuel and thus (our theory) would increase the explosive power at the pistons. Back then, testing was not on our agenda so we never knew if it actually made our cars faster.
#17
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
Top tier and tier 1 are generally considered one in the same, tier 1 as opposed to tier 2. It is still mostly marketing since the EPA standard is the supposed tier 2. The website you linked to is not an EPA site, it's a Top Tier promotional site. I will gladly be proven wrong, but I maintain that Top Tier (tier 1 or whatever) is an industry self standard not a government standard and therefore is suspect and can be inconsistent, as the OP claims.
Also looking around the internet I think the correct term is Top Tier - not sure where the Tier One terminology comes from but it sounds close.
#18
sigh...
Looks like I’m going to have to get medieval, like science 101 (burning the peanut). A peanut contains about 2.5 BTU of energy, that energy is the same regardless of where (country or state) the peanut comes from. Of course the salted, beer, honey roasted, and peanut brittle contain additives, but the basic peanut is what I’m talking about. In the world of gasoline and refining, the additives cannot change the amount of BTU that gas can produce.
Example: Per http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/ty..._gasoline.html "CARB Reformulated Gasoline (CARB RFG): An oxygenated reformulated gasoline which meets the most recent specifications set forth by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). This gasoline contains 5.7% ethanol as an oxygenate."
http://www.epa.gov/OMSWWW/rfgecon.htm shows the ranges of energy content for gasoline depending on the formulation for the season and also the energy content depending on the oxygenate.
#19
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
The Top Tier program was, as prevously stated, set up by a group of automakers with the objective of making a cleaner fuel from the perspective of engine life and engine performance.
Tier 2, from everything I have read, was completely different and setup by EPA to reduce polluting emmision from fuel, most specifically sulfur related emissions.
The two are not mutually exclusive -- or inclusive.
#20
Re: Hybrids... the crook catching machine
Somebody wrote a post a year or two ago about having spoken with someone at Shell who gave them the history of how Shell has tried to pioneer many aspects of improving gas quality and performance. I can't find the post... but it was very interesting.
Last edited by Marianne; 03-26-2008 at 10:13 AM.