I could not find the specifications for the belt driven motor generator. Without knowing how much power it can add or draw, there is no way to determine if it is eyewash or real. Although belts can carry a significant amount of energy, if it doesn't have at least a Civic's rating, it is 'wishful thinking.'

You can't fool thermodynamics.

Bob Wilson

 

Green Line VUE Prototype Receives Kudos

http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Futur...vuekudos.shtml

http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Futur...vuespecs.shtml

 

Here's a PDF of the BAS

http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/...d_brochure.pdf

 

First I want to congratulate GM in making the attempt. But looking at it with the same point of view used to select my vehicle, there are a few problem areas:
Apparenly the battery peak power is limited to 14.5 kW. The word "peak" in this case means discharge or charge rate. In discharge, the motor after all losses will be at best a 14.5 hp assist or extra heavy duty starter motor. In charge mode, the generate would absorb nearly 20 hp, somewhat weak brake. But a peak rate that lasts less than 1 second won't get the car more than a few feet. But that is better than 'no feet.'
The motor generator is on the wrong side of the engine, not connected to the transmission. This means it only works by helping the engine turn over or drawing power through the engine. Given the limited battery peak capability, not to mention, unknown battery pack energy storage, it slightly augments the engine with nearly 10 times the power.

To this engineer, it look like a bicycle built for two with little Pee-wee Herman in the front and Arnold Schwarzenegger pumping in the back. That too would be a 'hybrid' but not an optimum design. Still, it is a start.

When GM takes a four wheel drive transmission and connects a serious motor/generator and battery pack to the rear wheel drive shaft, we'll see a practical hybrid electric. When the motor/generator shaft power has simular HP and torque ratings as the engine, then we'll have one I'd be interested in driving. First vehicle to modify, the Hummer. Best of all, there would be enough power that building contractors would be seriously interested in having one on site.

Until then, the VUE is a nice start. But it remains little and too late for my use. My used 03 Prius, $17,300, has much better performance for value.

Bob Wilson

 

The VUE hybrid is just gimick. GM has a better hybrid system but putting it in cars is their last thought.

 

so true bob, one day that used prius from ebay will be mine! I mean a big car that gets the same mileage as my current car (or less), or a small car with twice the mileage...

I guess I'll wait for the final specs, but by the time summer hits I'm sure I'll be driving something better for a good price.

 

Saturns restructuring has been in the news over the past month or two. New vehicles, such as the SKY roadster and RELAY minivan have taken GMs customer-friendly brand into uncharted territories, while staples such as the VUE compact SUV and ION compact sedan and coupe have kept the brand in business. With plenty of other cars just around the corner, such as the European-themed AURA midsize sedan and a larger crossover SUV dubbed Outlook, Saturn officials have just announced a new plan which will help raise the profile of this satellite brand.

Saturns general manager Jill Lajdziak announced in the annual Management Briefing Seminar that the brand would be launching a lineup of hybrid vehicles starting mid-2006. To be called "Green Line", the name is a clever spin on the "Red Line" nameplate used for sporty versions of Saturns VUE and ION. No doubt, the square chromed badge used for Red Line cars will be identical, except for a green stripe replacing the red stripe.

The first vehicle to wear the "Green Line" badge will be the VUE, slated to arrive during model-year 2007.

According to GMs Executive Director of Hybrid Powertrains, Larry Nitz, the Green Line system for the VUE will be a "mild hybrid" system. The system has been described as, "a very high value hybrid, as close as a hybrid to be to a bolt on system," which will help keep prices reasonable. On top of the standard gasoline-powered motor, the "mild hybrid" [b]system will use a high-power 42-volt all-in-one starter-alternator-motor for
electrical assist. It is the heart of the system, and could also be used to restart the motor, should Saturn decide to give it an auto-stop feature. In total, the VUE Green Line is expected to deliver a fuel savings of around 10 percent, when compared to four-cylinder FWD equipped models. While theres no word on which gasoline powertrains will be used, it is expected that the electrical components will be mated to the 143-hp 2.2-liter Ecotec inline-four with the choice of a five-speed manual or four-speed automatic. The now-defunct CVT gearbox will stay out of the picture.

Though a 10 percent decrease in fuel consumption does not appear to be that great an improvement, it fulfills the objectives of the "mild hybrid" claim. GMs system is said to deliver 80 to 90 percent of the hybrid benefit at 10 to 20 percent of the cost. As it stands, the 2006 Saturn VUE is one of the most affordable compact SUVs on the marketplace with a starting price of $17,390; the addition of a hybrid system with an estimated cost of $1,500 to $2,000 would still undercut its main rival, the Ford Escape Hybrid by some $4,000 or so. Thats a price gap large enough to strike fear in the eyes of Ford execs and salespeople, plus potentially put a hefty dent in the sales of the Escape and Mercury Mariner hybrids.

Note that the Vue Green Line will lag behind the current hybrid SUVs in fuel economy.


Saturn's estimate of 27/32 mpg for the new Vue compares with 36/31 mpg for the best-mileage SUV, which is the 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid with front-wheel drive and 33/29 mpg with all-wheel drive.

The 2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid, which is a sibling of the Escape Hybrid with all-wheel drive, also is rated at 33/29 mpg. It's followed by the Lexus RX 400h and Toyota Highlander Hybrid, both of which are built by Toyota and have a rating of 33/28 mpg for two-wheel-drive models and 31/27 mpg for RX 400h and Highlander Hybrid four-wheel-drive models.

But the Vue Green Line can surpass the mileage of non-hybrid SUVs, including the 2006 Honda CR-V, which is rated at 23/29 mpg for a two-wheel drive.

On the outside, the Green Line mostly retains the styling and most components of the regular Vue compact SUV. There is a subtle change to the grille, and tires are different to provide less rolling resistance.


There are several ways that the Vue Green Line is simpler than other hybrids already on sale.

For one thing, the Vue Green Line will be the first hybrid SUV available in front-wheel-drive only. Officials said there will be no all- or four-wheel-drive offering, as there are for the current hybrid SUVs on the market. These are the 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid and Mercury Mariner Hybrid, Toyota Highlander Hybrid and Lexus RX 400h.

The front-wheel-drive-only drivetrain may limit the appeal of the Vue hybrid to people who aren't interested in four-wheel traction on their SUVs.

Less Complex System
While the Vue Green Line uses an electric motor and nickel-metal hydride battery pack to supplement a 2.4-liter Ecotec four-cylinder engine with 170 horsepower, this Vue cannot run beyond a few short seconds solely on electric power.

Typically, this short electric-only operation comes when the Vue is just starting up from a stop and the gasoline engine is just getting started. This electric-only time is limited because the Vue's hybrid system is designed primarily to supplement the gas engine—for example, in acceleration maneuvers when the driver wants to pass another vehicle on the highway. The electric power is not meant to provide propulsion on its own.

Sounds like a wanna be hybrid to me... "im not very impressed"..

 

Still sounds lame, and I don't put much into estimates.

From what I've seen in the Auto show, I'm not expecting much from this.

 

One way to look at this system is that the 20% increase sounds impressive at first glance, but could reflect two things:
a) a nice, efficient hybrid system, or
b) a low or moderately efficient hybrid system coupled to a previously very inefficient engine/vehicle.
Since the Green Vue has a lower fuel economy than the FEH, I would say b) is the case. In engineering terms, it sounds like a shoehorned, cheap system, and GM is trying to sell it by touting the 20% gain. That gain is certainly useful, there is no doubt about that, but it still means the non-hybrid version of the car is positively stone-age in terms of design and efficiency, and the hybrid system is a cheap, stopgap solution.
Just my 2c.

 

The hybrid system consists of a battery pack, inverter, and an oversized alternator. I have difficulty in believing the system is as effective as advertised.