You both live and work downtown? I thought most people in larger cities who both live and work downtown are usually without a car, to save on the higher expenses of living in that area.....Maybe I'm wrong.....

 

I would think Category 5 would be the optimal hybrid owner. No kids = more disposable income and no need for a land-yacht. Downtown = stop & go traffic, which 2nd Gen hybrids handle quite well.

 

I concur. Though technically I don't live and work downtown.

 

I thought that was interesting too, since it would have dramatically decreased the time it takes to recoup your savings. Perhaps since not everyone buying a hybrid will get the tax credit, but I still think he should have included it with a warning to buy earlier in the year.

Even when he compares it at $5 a gallon, it takes a whopping four years to pay off the difference . I guess he wants it to immediately pay off. I wonder how long it takes a V6 or V8 to pay off?

Then what cracks me up is the comment that since the HCH is selling at list price and you can get a better deal than the HC. If you think about this a little bit, that means there is a greater demand for the HCH. You couple this with the knowledge (easily gotten with a little research) that hybrids driver are on the whole more educated than the general population. Ergo, lots of intelligent people want this vehicle, yet in a brief analysis you conclude they are making a dumb decision.

 

yes, everything is for the here and now in American. Need that payoff today. That's how most people see it.

 

Oh yes, it slipped my mind.

How interesting that by my calculations by the second year I'm ahead.

 

Very funny. My favorite is number 8.

 

I had reason on another forum to read and respond to this hatchet job ..
My comments are between the quote markups. I am not sure why indentation did not occur.

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How a hybrid works
All of these hybrids are a marriage of a gasoline engine and an electric motor that is powered by a large battery pack. The battery pack is recharged either when the brakes are applied or through the alternator system of the gasoline engine.
[Q]The Prius does not have an alternator. The battery also charges in some conditions where the ICE (internal combustion engine) is off, and brakes are not applied.[/Q]


Toyota's Prius also is engineered for maximum fuel mileage in a more conventional four-door sedan package. By running only on battery at some speeds and on gasoline with its 1.5-liter four-cylinder engine at others, the Prius, according to the EPA, can achieve a maximum of 60 mpg.
[Q]Car speed does not define whether electrical or ICE, OR BOTH are used.
The EPA "Number" does not define a maximum; heck, it does not even call the upper range of their results a maximum. The practical , obtained on US roads maximum MPG of the 2G Prius is 120 MPG at close to ideal situations. My personal experience of best round trips is 75 MPG. My last tank was 66.5 MPG; my current tank at 130 miles is 67.5 MPG. [/Q]

But will you actually see such efficiency in your hybrid?

Most likely not, because the EPA uses a very controlled laboratory environment that is almost never duplicated by an individual's driving habits.
[Q]I rarely see mpg BELOW EPA this time of the year.[/Q]

What about the environment?
Putting aside for a moment the size of any fuel savings, another appeal of hybrids is the promise that they are doing less damage to the environment than similar, gasoline-only vehicles.

Is that true?
The amount of harmful emissions depends on your mileage, so it's possible that an individual's driving style could mean fewer greenhouse gas emissions in a gasoline-only Escape than that emitted from an Escape Hybrid whose driver always has the pedal to the metal.
[Q]And if the hybrid driver forgets to release the parking brake, CO2 emissions will skyrocket ! What a revelation.[/Q]

And there's another -- as-yet-unexplored -- environmental issue with hybrids: What's to be done about recycling or disposal of those highly toxic battery packs when they wear out?
[Q]The writer has still not realized that HV battery packs are NiMhybride, not lead.[/Q]

What about maintenance and durability?
As with any new technology, there are going to be Questions about reliability, and so far there isn't enough real-world experience to know for sure how hybrids are going to fare over the long haul.
[Q]Eight years on the roads, and the best reliability of any car available. Look up Consumer Reports.[/Q]

The gasoline engines in either the hybrid or gasoline-only vehicle should hold up eQually
[Q]No. There is no conventional transmission, no alternator, and no starter, In addition, the Prius ICE very rarely revs higher than 2500 rpm, and in city driving it is off a good fraction of the time. -[/Q]
The most pressing Question concerns the batteries that are essential to any hybrid. Even high-tech batteries have a limited lifespan when it comes to charging and recharging them.
[Q]The author may wish to review the warranty, and well as the track record of the Prius. 150,000 miles warranty, No battery failure, ever, using current gen NiMHydride that has been in Prius since 1999.[/Q]

One small sign of problems may have already appeared. The federal government has opened an investigation into reports that about three dozen 2004-2005 Toyota Prius sedans have had their gasoline engine stall at highway speeds. No injuries were reported and no recall has been ordered.
[Q]He forgot to mention the investigation was closed without recommendation. Unlike the recent recall of GM cars. Contrast and compare.[/Q]

Are hybrids a good buy?
Based solely on the price of a gallon of gasoline, it makes no economic sense to buy a hybrid in comparison to the same vehicle with a gasoline-only engine.
[Q]I'll compare a Prius to a 4 cylinder Camry auto LE, 150,000 mile life, EPA mileage figures, gas at $3/gallon:
_____________Camry________Prius______Comment
Purchase_____$18,900_______$21,000____ Edmunds TMV for Camry
MPG___________29___________55_______Read the August 05 CR article for proof that the Prius does not have an 'EPA advantage'
Gas cost______$15517_______$8181
Total_________$34417_______$29181
Advantage___________ Prius is $5236 cheaper[/Q]

What about tax incentives on hybrids?
True, tax breaks will offset some of the higher costs of a hybrid and reduce the time it would take to break even, but not by much.
[Q]For the Prius the tax credit is $3150. Not by much ?? Now the Prius saves you $8386 over the Camry.[/Q]

Further complicating matters is language in the bill that limits the tax breaks to only so many hybrids per manufacturer, which could benefit U.S. manufacturers just getting started selling hybrids and mean that the plentiful Toyota hybrids may not Qualify after 2007.
[Q]Which has exactly WHAT to do with a Prius purchase in 2006 ??[/Q]

But if the dollars and cents of car ownership are your guiding principle, the hybrid revolution has not reached the point where it makes financial sense.
[Q]Nonsense, pure and simple.[/Q]

Terry Jackson is the author of six automotive books and has been writing about cars for 25 years. He is the former editor-in-chief of AMI Auto World Magazine and NOPI Street Performance Compact. He has also written for Automobile, Road & Track and AutoWeek. He evaluates as many as 100 new cars each year.

 

I recently joined this forum and enjoy the comments. I have read all I could find on hybrid technology for a few years now and think with the "TCH" (I am beginning to learn the lingo) the current technology is maturing. It will be exciting to see what is in the future. Unfortunately, I am 63 and the real exciting nano and fuel cell tech will not be within my reach. I have two Toyotas, a 4cyl Camry LE (05)and a 4R (03). These vehicles have been the best I have ever owned. Unfortunately, I am planning to sell the 4R. My wife will not drive it or park it because it is too big not to mention the 13 mpg problem (I drove it 1000mi in the past year). The LE is almost perfect. It is comfortable on a trip and I get 39 to 40 mpg (never drive over 65). My city is 25 to 27. Neither vehicle has had to go into the shop. I will be sad to shed my 4R, but the TCH (there I go again) will take its place. thanks for all of the good info and amusing comments.

 

Hi Mike,
Whether you go with a TCH or a hybrid Accord or any of the serious hybrids, you are in for a treat. Not often discussed is the quality of ride our hybrids deliver. Unlike ordinary gas cars, our hybrids are often very quiet and smooth, using electric power.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson