Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,155
From: Lewisville (Dallas), Texas
Agreed: Stop the Broad Brush!
Each party has a characterization (or demonization) of the other. There are plenty of exceptions to that. Unfortunately, this thread has decended to that.
The hybrid tax sounded so bogus I searched at www.snopes.com for it. No hits yet. I think it would be political sucide to sponsor it.
________________________________________
I'm glad we can express our opinions here, but please lets:
I hope in the future members can avoid bellowing opinions as if it's a barroom here somehow makes it a fact. The few that do it hurt their credibility, and ruin the peace here.
Thank you.
The hybrid tax sounded so bogus I searched at www.snopes.com for it. No hits yet. I think it would be political sucide to sponsor it.
________________________________________
I'm glad we can express our opinions here, but please lets:
- be civil
- try to avoid demonizating other points of view
- state feelings as fact
I hope in the future members can avoid bellowing opinions as if it's a barroom here somehow makes it a fact. The few that do it hurt their credibility, and ruin the peace here.
Thank you.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,682
From: neither here, nor there...
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
A non-hybrid driving coworker (that just left, so I'll have to find out more information tomorrow) just said she heard on the news about the hybrid tax. So, the information is out there. Maybe there just hasn't been any articles posted on the net about it yet?
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 264
From: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
It's possible that there's nothing about it on the internet yet. But to give you some perspective, a broad search such as "New York" and "Hybrid" produced the following stories. Based on the original post, it sounded to me like the "report" came from a right wing radio station you're speaking of... specifically any reference to "treehugers" most likely comes from a station that plays Rush Limbaugh rather than Al Franken. Certainly not a mainstream source. I'm not trying to bash any political party directly, though I will say that I think that politics shouldn't be off limits on this site. But I'll defer to Jason and the other moderators on that subject. This post so quickly deteriorated I just wanted to point out that the initial "source" sounds like it originated more from the call-in llines of a right wing talk show more so than a serious proposal being weighed by the NY legislature.:
Hybrid taxis debut in New York
MyWestTexas.com, TX - Nov 20, 2005
NEW YORK - Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs and generate far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New York's ...
Metro Briefs
New York Times, United States - 57 minutes ago
... Fast Forward with a refund request form available from the New York attorney general's ... MANHATTAN: MTA HONORED FOR HYBRID BUSES The chairman of the Metropolitan ...
Museum of American Finance Moving to Wall Street; 30,000 sq. ft. ... Business Wire (press release)
all 2 related »
NYSE Hybrid Proposal Strikes Compromises; Approval Likely, But Not ...
Traders, NY - 9 hours ago
... following story). Debate over hybrid was fairly muted until the New York published its fifth amendment this summer. That led to ...
AutoCorse.it NY MTA Celebrates Cleaner, Smarter Transit Through Commitment to ...
Yahoo! News (press release) - 11 hours ago
... here today with DaimlerChrysler's Andreas Renschler to celebrate the improvements to New York City's quality of life provided by the hybrid diesel-electric ...
MTA Chairman, DaimlerChrysler Will Celebrate Commitment To Cleaner ... Autochannel
DaimlerChrysler Receives Largest Hybrid-Electric Bus Order To Date AutoCorse.it
NY MTA Celebrates Cleaner, Smarter Transit Through Commitment to ... PR Newswire (press release)
all 5 related »
Big Board market share of NYSE-listed stock declines
Reuters - 6 hours ago
... P: Quote, Profile, Research) and its separate plans to launch a "hybrid" market, combining ... to the market and I think it is very important to New York (the NYSE ...
Nasdaq, NYSE in Home Stretch On Electronic Exchange Deals ComputerWorld
all 2 related »
At Deadline
Traders, NY - 9 hours ago
... The life of the independent floor broker at the New York Stock Exchange will be more difficult once the exchange converts to a hybrid market, according to Bob ...
Hybrid cabs debut in New York
Newsday, NY - Nov 10, 2005
NEW YORK -- Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs and generate far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New York's ...
Seattle Post Intelligencer Hybrid cabs debut in New York City
Seattle Post Intelligencer - Nov 10, 2005
NEW YORK -- Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs while generating far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New ...
Hybrid Cabs Debut in New York City
Leading The Charge, Australia - Nov 10, 2005
NEW YORK - Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs while generating far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New York ...
Hybrid cabs debut in New York
The State, SC - Nov 11, 2005
NEW YORK — Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs and generate far less pollution have made their debut in small numbers on New York ...
Hybrid taxis debut in New York
MyWestTexas.com, TX - Nov 20, 2005
NEW YORK - Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs and generate far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New York's ...
Metro Briefs
New York Times, United States - 57 minutes ago
... Fast Forward with a refund request form available from the New York attorney general's ... MANHATTAN: MTA HONORED FOR HYBRID BUSES The chairman of the Metropolitan ...
Museum of American Finance Moving to Wall Street; 30,000 sq. ft. ... Business Wire (press release)
all 2 related »
NYSE Hybrid Proposal Strikes Compromises; Approval Likely, But Not ...
Traders, NY - 9 hours ago
... following story). Debate over hybrid was fairly muted until the New York published its fifth amendment this summer. That led to ...
AutoCorse.it NY MTA Celebrates Cleaner, Smarter Transit Through Commitment to ...
Yahoo! News (press release) - 11 hours ago
... here today with DaimlerChrysler's Andreas Renschler to celebrate the improvements to New York City's quality of life provided by the hybrid diesel-electric ...
MTA Chairman, DaimlerChrysler Will Celebrate Commitment To Cleaner ... Autochannel
DaimlerChrysler Receives Largest Hybrid-Electric Bus Order To Date AutoCorse.it
NY MTA Celebrates Cleaner, Smarter Transit Through Commitment to ... PR Newswire (press release)
all 5 related »
Big Board market share of NYSE-listed stock declines
Reuters - 6 hours ago
... P: Quote, Profile, Research) and its separate plans to launch a "hybrid" market, combining ... to the market and I think it is very important to New York (the NYSE ...
Nasdaq, NYSE in Home Stretch On Electronic Exchange Deals ComputerWorld
all 2 related »
At Deadline
Traders, NY - 9 hours ago
... The life of the independent floor broker at the New York Stock Exchange will be more difficult once the exchange converts to a hybrid market, according to Bob ...
Hybrid cabs debut in New York
Newsday, NY - Nov 10, 2005
NEW YORK -- Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs and generate far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New York's ...
Seattle Post Intelligencer Hybrid cabs debut in New York City
Seattle Post Intelligencer - Nov 10, 2005
NEW YORK -- Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs while generating far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New ...
Hybrid Cabs Debut in New York City
Leading The Charge, Australia - Nov 10, 2005
NEW YORK - Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs while generating far less pollution have begun rolling in small numbers on New York ...
Hybrid cabs debut in New York
The State, SC - Nov 11, 2005
NEW YORK — Hybrid taxis that get double the gas mileage of traditional cabs and generate far less pollution have made their debut in small numbers on New York ...
Conservative Socialist
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 878
From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_3252683
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/2016057.html]
http://www.dhonline.com/articles/200...ion/edit03.txt
Hybrid tax considered to fund highways
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Taxing hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars and billing drivers for miles driven are among the approaches being suggested to avert a shortfall in money to maintain the nation's highways.
Less than four months after President George W. Bush signed a six-year, $286.4 billion highway and public transit act, a report commissioned by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says the federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of money and Congress needs to think about new revenue sources.
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Taxing hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars and billing drivers for miles driven are among the approaches being suggested to avert a shortfall in money to maintain the nation's highways.
Less than four months after President George W. Bush signed a six-year, $286.4 billion highway and public transit act, a report commissioned by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says the federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of money and Congress needs to think about new revenue sources.
Chamber Suggests Hybrid Tax
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is suggesting the federal government tax hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars.
The chamber says the federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of money to maintain the nation's highways, and that Congress needs to consider new sources of revenue.
Chamber leaders also are suggesting billing drivers for miles driven.
The study also recommends the federal gas tax of about 18 cents a gallon be indexed for inflation.
Why tax hybrids and other alternative fuel vehicles?
Proponents say drivers should have to pay their fair share to fill potholes and fix bridges, regardless of how much or what kind of fuel they use.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is suggesting the federal government tax hybrids and other fuel-efficient cars.
The chamber says the federal Highway Trust Fund is running out of money to maintain the nation's highways, and that Congress needs to consider new sources of revenue.
Chamber leaders also are suggesting billing drivers for miles driven.
The study also recommends the federal gas tax of about 18 cents a gallon be indexed for inflation.
Why tax hybrids and other alternative fuel vehicles?
Proponents say drivers should have to pay their fair share to fill potholes and fix bridges, regardless of how much or what kind of fuel they use.
Editor's mailbag
Against a tax on hybrids
I read with amazement the front-page article titled “Report Suggests Taxing Hybrids.” The article explains the findings of a report that was commissioned by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. According to the report, the Federal Highway Trust Fund (which is funded by the federal gasoline tax) is running out of money and Congress needs to consider new revenue sources such as collecting tolls, levying a special vehicle fee on owners of hybrids and alternative-fuel vehicles and/or replacing the gas tax with a mileage tax.
As a hybrid owner, I must admit that the idea of levying a special vehicle fee raised my hackles. The rationale is that hybrids and alternative-fuel vehicles do not pay “their fair share” of the road maintenance costs. This argument may have some merit for alternative-fuel vehicles (such as hydrogen fuel cell, biodiesel, electric and natural gas vehicles); they drive on the road but avoid gasoline tax by not using gasoline. Hybrids, however, should not be lumped together with alternative-fuel vehicles. They use gasoline and only gasoline for fuel. The myth that hybrids come with a power cord is completely false. Hybrids do not use any alternative fuels, they just use gasoline in a smarter way.
Against a tax on hybrids
I read with amazement the front-page article titled “Report Suggests Taxing Hybrids.” The article explains the findings of a report that was commissioned by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. According to the report, the Federal Highway Trust Fund (which is funded by the federal gasoline tax) is running out of money and Congress needs to consider new revenue sources such as collecting tolls, levying a special vehicle fee on owners of hybrids and alternative-fuel vehicles and/or replacing the gas tax with a mileage tax.
As a hybrid owner, I must admit that the idea of levying a special vehicle fee raised my hackles. The rationale is that hybrids and alternative-fuel vehicles do not pay “their fair share” of the road maintenance costs. This argument may have some merit for alternative-fuel vehicles (such as hydrogen fuel cell, biodiesel, electric and natural gas vehicles); they drive on the road but avoid gasoline tax by not using gasoline. Hybrids, however, should not be lumped together with alternative-fuel vehicles. They use gasoline and only gasoline for fuel. The myth that hybrids come with a power cord is completely false. Hybrids do not use any alternative fuels, they just use gasoline in a smarter way.
Last edited by AZCivic; Nov 29, 2005 at 09:46 PM.
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 264
From: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
I appreciate the post, and I certainly stand corrected. I was looking for a New York state proposal, I didn't realize something this asinine could come from the US Chamber of Commerce. But I guess with exactly one hybrid being made by a US company with two different names using technology licensed by Toyota, this is to be expected.
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 264
From: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
Though I might add, I sure am looking for this proposal here:
http://www.uschamber.com/issues/acco...transportation
and gotta say, I haven't found it yet.
http://www.uschamber.com/issues/acco...transportation
and gotta say, I haven't found it yet.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
From: El Cerrito, CA
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
Okay, so we're getting to the bottom of this. It definitely came from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which is not some wacko right wing radio pundit, but does generally promote a pro-business conservative agenda.
The study was published on November 3. So it took some time to produce any ripples.
Here is the whole executive summary -
http://www.uschamber.com/NR/rdonlyre...xecSummary.pdf
Here is the pertinent section -
"Midterm Strategies: 2010 to 2015
By 2010, the federal government can begin to broaden the base of
user payments to the HTF by collecting a vehicle fee to capture
fair payments from auto and truck users regardless of the type of
fuel used.
To ensure adequate federal transportation revenues beyond 2015, the
federal government can supplement current federal motor fuel taxes with
an annual federal vehicle tax on hybrid and nonpetroleum-powered
vehicles so that all passenger vehicles pay their fair share of highway use
costs. If the federal government wishes to subsidize the purchase of
hybrid and nonpetroleum-powered vehicles to reduce fuel consumption
and emissions, the subsidies should be provided from the general fund,
as was done for ethanol fuel subsidies, and not from the HTF.
The tax rates for hybrid and nonpetroleum-powered vehicles should be
determined by a new federal highway and transit cost allocation study.
Cost allocation studies have been used since the 1956 Highway Act to
determine the appropriate allocation of federal fees, whether based on
fuel consumption, vehicle type, or mileage. This was the approach used
to set federal vehicle taxes for heavy trucks. Diesel fuel taxes alone do
not cover the highway costs occasioned by heavy trucks. To ensure
that trucks pay a fair share of the costs of building and maintaining
highways, diesel fuel taxes are supplemented with the Heavy Vehicle
Use Tax (HVUT), an excise sales tax on heavy vehicles, and tire taxes
paid into the HTF.
The recently authorized National Surface Transportation Infrastructure
Financing Commission can oversee the new cost allocation study,
setting principles and guidelines for the efficient and equitable
allocation of HTF fees."
That doesn't sound too extreme to me. And it certainly isn't going to happen any time soon.
The study was published on November 3. So it took some time to produce any ripples.
Here is the whole executive summary -
http://www.uschamber.com/NR/rdonlyre...xecSummary.pdf
Here is the pertinent section -
"Midterm Strategies: 2010 to 2015
By 2010, the federal government can begin to broaden the base of
user payments to the HTF by collecting a vehicle fee to capture
fair payments from auto and truck users regardless of the type of
fuel used.
To ensure adequate federal transportation revenues beyond 2015, the
federal government can supplement current federal motor fuel taxes with
an annual federal vehicle tax on hybrid and nonpetroleum-powered
vehicles so that all passenger vehicles pay their fair share of highway use
costs. If the federal government wishes to subsidize the purchase of
hybrid and nonpetroleum-powered vehicles to reduce fuel consumption
and emissions, the subsidies should be provided from the general fund,
as was done for ethanol fuel subsidies, and not from the HTF.
The tax rates for hybrid and nonpetroleum-powered vehicles should be
determined by a new federal highway and transit cost allocation study.
Cost allocation studies have been used since the 1956 Highway Act to
determine the appropriate allocation of federal fees, whether based on
fuel consumption, vehicle type, or mileage. This was the approach used
to set federal vehicle taxes for heavy trucks. Diesel fuel taxes alone do
not cover the highway costs occasioned by heavy trucks. To ensure
that trucks pay a fair share of the costs of building and maintaining
highways, diesel fuel taxes are supplemented with the Heavy Vehicle
Use Tax (HVUT), an excise sales tax on heavy vehicles, and tire taxes
paid into the HTF.
The recently authorized National Surface Transportation Infrastructure
Financing Commission can oversee the new cost allocation study,
setting principles and guidelines for the efficient and equitable
allocation of HTF fees."
That doesn't sound too extreme to me. And it certainly isn't going to happen any time soon.
Last edited by ElanC; Nov 29, 2005 at 11:37 PM. Reason: To correct a typo
Banned
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,155
From: Lewisville (Dallas), Texas
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
The 2010-2015 time frame is from a political standpoint the distant future and definitely beyond the Bush administration. So many things could happen between now and then. We could be paying $4-5 gallon gas by then....or maybe not.
I think some political discussion is inevitable when talking about hybrids - just be civil about it. It really helps to supply facts with a point of view. I try to do that and generally retract inaccurate statements. I'm glad that's the direction this thread is going - supporting facts.
I think some political discussion is inevitable when talking about hybrids - just be civil about it. It really helps to supply facts with a point of view. I try to do that and generally retract inaccurate statements. I'm glad that's the direction this thread is going - supporting facts.
Last edited by Delta Flyer; Nov 30, 2005 at 06:15 AM.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
From: Leominster, MA
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
Hybrids and politics are intermingled as long as there are taxes or tax incentives. Talking about it is sometimes required. It seems we've gone away from the personal attacks and can now keep this thread open for further developments.
Enchanter, Enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 852
From: Seattle, Washington
Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.
I don't think one can deny the potential political motivation behind proposals like this. I just get a little touchy when one group gets singled out, especially on an issue that's clearly relevant to all flavors of politicians.
On this particular proposal - this to me is a perfect example of someone's board-room brainstorm that was based on their perception of hybrids rather than the facts. "Hey, what if we say our shortfalls have been caused by all the hybrids? They use less fuel, right? Don't they plug in too?...". Some analyst is at their desk right now running the actual numbers and realizing that taxing ~371,000 hybrids on the road isn't going to do squat. The premise that hybrids are the cause of their money problems is by itself bogus.
On this particular proposal - this to me is a perfect example of someone's board-room brainstorm that was based on their perception of hybrids rather than the facts. "Hey, what if we say our shortfalls have been caused by all the hybrids? They use less fuel, right? Don't they plug in too?...". Some analyst is at their desk right now running the actual numbers and realizing that taxing ~371,000 hybrids on the road isn't going to do squat. The premise that hybrids are the cause of their money problems is by itself bogus.
