GM developing plug-in Saturn
#11
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
Also, if you have an electric oven, range top, clotes dryer, heater, etc... they all pull more than 10 amps on a 230 volt single phase service. Where you might get into trouble is the sum of all consumption if you have an old 50 - 60 amp house service. Most new homes have around 110 - 150 amp services.
#12
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
But it really dosen't matter. The reason why I took this up is the fact there there is a lot a people around, (not necessarily here at the forum) are paying tribute to the future of the plug-in hybrid, without really knowing anything about it. Of course we need plug-in for the future, but it will not be as easy as many thinks.
"No new infrastructure is needed" I have heard from many people. Well, that depends on what we are talking about. Charging on a single phase 10 amp power cord ONLY at home isn't enough.
Two possiblities (they are a few more)
1.You should charge at your office too.
2. Use three-phase charging instead.
Both alternatives require "new" infrastructure in most of the chases.
Then you can argue if 10 miles is "enough". I would say that we need at least 30 miles to really gain any serious advantage from the plug-in feature. Second, how many are really willing to pay extra for a "10 miles plug-in feature"?
#13
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
But it really dosen't matter. The reason why I took this up is the fact there there is a lot a people around, (not necessarily here at the forum) are paying tribute to the future of the plug-in hybrid, without really knowing anything about it. Of course we need plug-in for the future, but it will not be as easy as many thinks.
"No new infrastructure is needed" I have heard from many people. Well, that depends on what we are talking about. Charging on a single phase 10 amp power cord ONLY at home isn't enough.
Two possiblities (they are a few more)
1.You should charge at your office too.
2. Use three-phase charging instead.
Both alternatives require "new" infrastructure in most of the chases.
Then you can argue if 10 miles is "enough". I would say that we need at least 30 miles to really gain any serious advantage from the plug-in feature. Second, how many are really willing to pay extra for a "10 miles plug-in feature"?
"No new infrastructure is needed" I have heard from many people. Well, that depends on what we are talking about. Charging on a single phase 10 amp power cord ONLY at home isn't enough.
Two possiblities (they are a few more)
1.You should charge at your office too.
2. Use three-phase charging instead.
Both alternatives require "new" infrastructure in most of the chases.
Then you can argue if 10 miles is "enough". I would say that we need at least 30 miles to really gain any serious advantage from the plug-in feature. Second, how many are really willing to pay extra for a "10 miles plug-in feature"?
Even with a single 15A single-phase, you can charge 10KwH in your 6hrs overnight. That's 40 mile range (using clett's mileage)
Any licensed electrician can rewire your home electrical circuit to anywhere you want, as easily as putting in a hot water heater (for example). And utility companies add two/three phase power to homes all the time. I know that not all rual area can do this effectively, but most homes/appartment can, and has already.
The infastructure IS there.
If you can afford to own a $20k + car, you are probably living where you have that infastructure.
#14
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
I still feel it is VERY reasonable to expect the purchaser to install a dedicated charging circuit. Even better would be to have two way to charge, a slow 110 circuit and a faster 230 circuit. if the electronics were smart enough you could even program the rate of charge to neck down how many amps are drawn on each system.
#15
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
Aside: Olle73, I didnt realized you are from Sweden. I cant talk to the infastructure in Sweden, but in the US, there should be no problem (I appologized for myself for being the narrow minded american [edit: i better caveat that last statement before I get flamed! - I was only talking about myself as being narrow minded).
Last edited by occ; 12-14-2006 at 01:21 PM.
#16
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
From my own experience, when the CEO of my company announces at a national auto show that we are going to build a vehicle, we build it.
And when prototypes are displayed, it is typically because the project is far enough down the development path that it's more a matter of "when" not "if".
Peace,
Martin
And when prototypes are displayed, it is typically because the project is far enough down the development path that it's more a matter of "when" not "if".
Peace,
Martin
#17
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
Aside: Olle73, I didnt realized you are from Sweden. I cant talk to the infastructure in Sweden, but in the US, there should be no problem (I appologized for myself for being the narrow minded american [edit: i better caveat that last statement before I get flamed! - I was only talking about myself as being narrow minded).
Second, to be allowed to connect a car to the power grid the manufacture have to handle a lot of new requirements, both legal and others. I know that the automotive industri are a little bit scared of this; facing a big unknown area of new requirements. And those might be different on different markets.
#18
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
From my own experience, when the CEO of my company announces at a national auto show that we are going to build a vehicle, we build it.
And when prototypes are displayed, it is typically because the project is far enough down the development path that it's more a matter of "when" not "if".
And when prototypes are displayed, it is typically because the project is far enough down the development path that it's more a matter of "when" not "if".
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1267946.html
#19
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
Hi Martin, I am still a little concerned, as GM showed us the 80 mpg hybrid Precept 5 years ago, yet this didn't come to fruition.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1267946.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/1267946.html
The EV1 was perhaps marginal but crushing the cars was excessive. Electric vehicles still face significant engineering problems but not enough to require destruction. But to see the 'Precept'; the date of the review; and the subsequent GM follow-up; I'm reminded of our last GM vehicle, the Chevette and how GM walked away from the Japanese 'bread and butter' market. Is GM is capable of competing in any way shape or form?
I really don't care about GM's labor costs. If we made the workers into GM slaves and worked them for free, it still won't save a GM that continues to pull bone-headed decisions like 'crushing EV1' and abandoning the 'Precept.' The labor costs do not matter and the non-union managers and board of directors are incompetent to an extent that defies imagination.
Bob Wilson
Last edited by bwilson4web; 12-15-2006 at 06:20 AM.
#20
Re: GM developing plug-in Saturn
Aside: Olle73, I didnt realized you are from Sweden. I cant talk to the infastructure in Sweden, but in the US, there should be no problem (I appologized for myself for being the narrow minded american [edit: i better caveat that last statement before I get flamed! - I was only talking about myself as being narrow minded).
Olle, I too did not take the time to see that your are from Sweden, and sometimes in my rantings I forget that the WWW is World Wide. Not to sound harsh, but I don't feel limitations in one country should eliminate the possibilities in a different country. There are many fuel efficient vehicles sold in Europe that we americans don't even get to oportunity to buy. Fortunatly the US power systems is developed enought to allow plug-in hybrids, and i doubt there would be any permiting or regulations needed above what we have in place right now. I don't need a permit to plug in a high consumption device today, so i don't see me needing one to plug in a car.