Getting quiet cars to make some noise
#1
01-20-2009, 11:47 PM
Engineering first
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Getting quiet cars to make some noise
http://glrc.org/story.php?story_id=4316
http://glrc.org/transcript.php3?story_id=4316
So I sent the following note to both the report and the 'feedback' of this University publication:
Bob Wilson
http://glrc.org/transcript.php3?story_id=4316
. . .
A lot of people who drive gas-electric hybrid cars love how quiet they are. But others say hybrids are so quiet they’re hazardous. People in the blind community say they can’t hear hybrid cars coming... and they’d like to have sound added back into the cars. Rebecca Williams has the story:
. . .
A lot of people who drive gas-electric hybrid cars love how quiet they are. But others say hybrids are so quiet they’re hazardous. People in the blind community say they can’t hear hybrid cars coming... and they’d like to have sound added back into the cars. Rebecca Williams has the story:
. . .
Originally Posted by my_reply
We looked at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
(NHTSA) accident data, the Fatality Accident Reporting System (FARS)
to see if we could find any evidence supporting the claims of the
blind. What we found was:
1) 4,700 pedestrian deaths per year
2) 5 of them are blind pedestrians
3) in 5 years, not one blind killed by a hybrid electric Prius
4) Prius has the same accident rate as ordinary vehicles (55 known
Prius-pedestrian deaths, not one blind!)
Science, empiricism demands a hard, cold look at the facts and data.
But we can find no data, none, showing the silent, hybrid electric
Prius is any more of a hazard than ordinary vehicles. In fact, in
June, 2008, the NHTSA held a hearing on this subject and we submitted
our report. Search:
http://www.regulations.gov/
NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.1 - analysis of 5 years of FARS data showing no
detectable hybrid risk
NHTSA-2008-0108-0022.2 - Chidester report, NHTSA analysis of backover accidents
NHTSA-2008-0108 - for all submissions
The reason I bring up the Chidester report is in one year, we lose 25
kids, fatally killed in backover accidents. These are accidents where
the engine tailpipe is pointed directly at them. Engine noise did not
save them. In one case, a Cadillac Escalade with a object detection
system ran over a kid and didn't stop until the body was in front of
the vehicle. This report includes photos of the accident scene
including a pool of blood in the street.
A noise maker does not improve pedestrian safety but condemns us to
hybrids that will be just as deadly as today's engine only vehicles.
At best, the proposed noise makers ensures the same 5 blind pedestrian
deaths each year without addressing the 4,695 other pedestrians who
die each year including 25 kids. You have listened to only one side
and failed to analyze the facts and data.
I attended the Detroit Auto Show last week and the Denso electronics
booth included their new lane following and accident prevention
system. This combined video and radar system detects not only
impending accidents but even detected pedestrians. This is the type of
safety system that can save not only the 5 blind who die each year but
even you and I as we walk along the road. This approach can make a
serious reduction in pedestrian accidents and save lives many times
over the fears of the blind. I've attached three, rather grainy photos
taken at the booth showing how pedestrians are identified and tracked
by this system. This is a solution that scales for the real problem,
the two orders of magnitude greater risk of fatality by all
pedestrians.
Hopefully, my note has given you some facts and data to understand the
issue in depth. The deaths of nearly 5,000 pedestrians every year are
too serious to merit a one-sided, superficial look at the issue.
Safety rules are, sad to say, written in blood, and there is no
empirical evidence of a hybrid risk compared to the annual pile of
dead pedestrian bodies.
(NHTSA) accident data, the Fatality Accident Reporting System (FARS)
to see if we could find any evidence supporting the claims of the
blind. What we found was:
1) 4,700 pedestrian deaths per year
2) 5 of them are blind pedestrians
3) in 5 years, not one blind killed by a hybrid electric Prius
4) Prius has the same accident rate as ordinary vehicles (55 known
Prius-pedestrian deaths, not one blind!)
Science, empiricism demands a hard, cold look at the facts and data.
But we can find no data, none, showing the silent, hybrid electric
Prius is any more of a hazard than ordinary vehicles. In fact, in
June, 2008, the NHTSA held a hearing on this subject and we submitted
our report. Search:
http://www.regulations.gov/
NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.1 - analysis of 5 years of FARS data showing no
detectable hybrid risk
NHTSA-2008-0108-0022.2 - Chidester report, NHTSA analysis of backover accidents
NHTSA-2008-0108 - for all submissions
The reason I bring up the Chidester report is in one year, we lose 25
kids, fatally killed in backover accidents. These are accidents where
the engine tailpipe is pointed directly at them. Engine noise did not
save them. In one case, a Cadillac Escalade with a object detection
system ran over a kid and didn't stop until the body was in front of
the vehicle. This report includes photos of the accident scene
including a pool of blood in the street.
A noise maker does not improve pedestrian safety but condemns us to
hybrids that will be just as deadly as today's engine only vehicles.
At best, the proposed noise makers ensures the same 5 blind pedestrian
deaths each year without addressing the 4,695 other pedestrians who
die each year including 25 kids. You have listened to only one side
and failed to analyze the facts and data.
I attended the Detroit Auto Show last week and the Denso electronics
booth included their new lane following and accident prevention
system. This combined video and radar system detects not only
impending accidents but even detected pedestrians. This is the type of
safety system that can save not only the 5 blind who die each year but
even you and I as we walk along the road. This approach can make a
serious reduction in pedestrian accidents and save lives many times
over the fears of the blind. I've attached three, rather grainy photos
taken at the booth showing how pedestrians are identified and tracked
by this system. This is a solution that scales for the real problem,
the two orders of magnitude greater risk of fatality by all
pedestrians.
Hopefully, my note has given you some facts and data to understand the
issue in depth. The deaths of nearly 5,000 pedestrians every year are
too serious to merit a one-sided, superficial look at the issue.
Safety rules are, sad to say, written in blood, and there is no
empirical evidence of a hybrid risk compared to the annual pile of
dead pedestrian bodies.
Last edited by bwilson4web; 01-21-2009 at 04:56 AM.
#2
01-21-2009, 09:26 AM
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northport, AL
Posts: 15
Re: Getting quiet cars to make some noise
Bob, I agree wholeheartedly with your reply. I also thought of something else to consider: I have driven cars with a proximity warning system. They beep when you parallel park; they beep when you park in a parking lot; they beep when you are close to a tree; etc. It is human nature to eventually start to ignore this beeping, because you hear it all the time and most of the time there is really no hazard that you didn't already know about. Like the old story about the boy who cried "wolf."
The point is that there is a major human element in vehicle safety, with or without automated warning systems. Seems to me we would be further ahead if we would do more consciousness-raising and awareness training for drivers in general, to pay attention to what is in the path of the vehicle. This is especially true for extremely quiet vehicles, like electrics and hybrids; but on the other hand, I always check behind my vehicle before I back out - whether it is the hybrid or the diesel - because, around my house, there may be an old, deaf dog asleep back there! Needless to say, this becomes a critical matter when there are small children around, and drivers need to pay attention to this as a safety matter, like any other safety matter.
The point is that there is a major human element in vehicle safety, with or without automated warning systems. Seems to me we would be further ahead if we would do more consciousness-raising and awareness training for drivers in general, to pay attention to what is in the path of the vehicle. This is especially true for extremely quiet vehicles, like electrics and hybrids; but on the other hand, I always check behind my vehicle before I back out - whether it is the hybrid or the diesel - because, around my house, there may be an old, deaf dog asleep back there! Needless to say, this becomes a critical matter when there are small children around, and drivers need to pay attention to this as a safety matter, like any other safety matter.
#3
01-21-2009, 07:16 PM
Engineering first
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Re: Getting quiet cars to make some noise
Hey neighbor,
Northport is only 3 hours away. If you're up in the Huntsville area, give me a hollar. <grins>
As for pedestrian safety, I agree that we need something smarter that doesn't have so many false positives. Sad to say but noise generators, regardless of what they are placed on, fail.
Bob Wilson
Northport is only 3 hours away. If you're up in the Huntsville area, give me a hollar. <grins>
As for pedestrian safety, I agree that we need something smarter that doesn't have so many false positives. Sad to say but noise generators, regardless of what they are placed on, fail.
Bob Wilson
#5
01-22-2009, 11:09 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: neither here, nor there...
Posts: 1,682
Re: Getting quiet cars to make some noise
How about passing a law saying blind people have to wear a special color hat, and when a hybrid driver in EV mode sees that hat, to honk to let the blind person know a hybrid running on silent mode is coming their way? 
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