Journalism & The Media Television, radio, movies, newspapers, magazines, the Internet and more.

Dumb as we wanna be

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 30, 2008 | 06:33 AM
  #1  
fernando_g's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Energy Independence!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 310
From: South Texas
Default Dumb as we wanna be

Excellent article by Thomas Friedmann, this is in relationship to the "gas tax holiday" that the pres candidates are proposing.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/op...html?th&emc=th
 
Old Apr 30, 2008 | 09:41 AM
  #2  
fernando_g's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Energy Independence!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 310
From: South Texas
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

a snippet:

" The McCain-Clinton proposal is a reminder to me that the biggest energy crisis we have in our country today is the energy to be serious — the energy to do big things in a sustained, focused and intelligent way. We are in the midst of a national political brownout. "
 
Old Apr 30, 2008 | 09:57 AM
  #3  
Whiterook's Avatar
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 108
From: SE PA
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

Originally Posted by fernando_g
Excellent article by Thomas Friedmann, this is in relationship to the "gas tax holiday" that the pres candidates are proposing.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/op...html?th&emc=th
Brutal.

What can the individual do?
Buy gold, guns, stockpile food, draw down debt.......pray?
 
Old Apr 30, 2008 | 11:28 AM
  #4  
KenG's Avatar
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 215
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

Friedman is philosophically right on here. However, there is a nuance that he missed. He seemed to relate the expiring tax credits for renewables to oil usage. Since the renewables in question (wind, solar) are only used for electrical generation, they don't directly impact liquid fuels. The only government actions that could impact gasoline would be ethanol (questionable value) and development of electric/PHEV auto technology. That support, to the extent is exists, is not currently at risk.
 
Old Apr 30, 2008 | 01:00 PM
  #5  
fernando_g's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Energy Independence!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 310
From: South Texas
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

One sad thing about all this political bickering is -as Mr Friedman correctly points out- that the end result is that the USA has fallen behind in the next major global growth industry: renewable energy and its efficient use. Which would provide thousands of new high paying jobs and billions in technology exports.

We at this forum are painfully aware of this fact.
 
Old Apr 30, 2008 | 02:21 PM
  #6  
steved28's Avatar
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 168
From: 30 miles outside Boston
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

Meanwhile, Massachusetts has taken matters into their own hands. And a very large solar panel manufacturing plant has opened in the former Ft. Devens site thanks to incentives by the state government. They have plans to quadruple the size of the plant, as well as build more. Evergreen Solar is the company, I believe they are German based.

http://www.evergreensolar.com/app/en...ruction/devens
 
Old May 1, 2008 | 11:21 PM
  #7  
Mikesan's Avatar
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 84
From: Sacramento
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

Taxpayers should not be subsidizing solar power or alternative power of any kind. That's not the role of government. Let entrepreneurs finance these things and if they are successful, let them enjoy the profits. If they are not, let them, not taxpayers, eat the costs.
 
Old May 2, 2008 | 09:22 AM
  #8  
leahbeatle's Avatar
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 955
From: Chicago area
Default Re: Dumb as we wanna be

Long term investment in research for the public benefit is *absolutely* the role of government. Inertial barriers to innovation can be overcome to create shifts in industry focus with the proper incentives- the entire energy industry is so heavily subsidized by the government in so many different ways already that adding new players would require similarly intense subsidies just to begin to make competition possible on a level playing field. That's leaving aside the not-insubstantial startup costs and initial capital that any new or emerging business would need, and which disadvantages them against the established (dirty) means of production.

But that isn't even the issue here. The issue is the existing gas tax. Taxes affect the prices of the goods they apply to, and every economist able to scream reacted with horror, derision and condemnation when Clinton decided to support McCain's proposed 'tax holiday' plan. The fact that he's been talking about it for a while without generating this much comment reflects the fact that it simply wasn't taken seriously coming from him. When she lends her support to it and calls it 'bipartisan,' that lends the wild-eyed notion a level of legitimacy that it simply doesn't deserve.

As the economists have explained, not only would the plan, if you can honor it with such a title, result in INCREASED gas prices, but it would have perverse impacts on the global warming problem, probably hurt our economy, and be a significant windfall for the people selling us oil. Even if the price increases were small, and only offset the amount of the tax, leaving the price at the pump unchanged in total (best case scenario, really), that increase in price would go straight into the pockets of the oil companies and oil-producing nations, instead of, as the gas tax does, into a national fund for the maintenance and repair of our roads and bridges. To make up the difference in funding for those desperately needed repairs, we would increase the national debt (mostly to China- IF they continue to lend us money) which has to be paid back, with interest, by our kids down the road. That's the last thing our economy needs right now.
 
Related Topics
Thread
Topic Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
marc brown
Introductions
1
May 25, 2008 08:38 PM
DogLover
Introductions
1
Aug 15, 2005 10:00 PM



Contact Us -

  • Your Privacy Choices
  • Manage Preferences
  • Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

    When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

    © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands


    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:30 AM.