China has the cash and the know-how on how to install pollution control . The governement wants someone else to do it and that means us. They do not have an excuse not to do so.

Any one who says we had 200 years to clean up our mess needs to tell me in 1862 what pollution control devices or practices existed but were not practiced? How about in 1912? 1932? I'm old enough to remember Doctors advertised smoking helps with digestion- so smoke those Chesterfields. China is not some poor third world country. China is a world power. The Chinese have a
responsibility to clean up their end of the world without raiding the taxpayers of this country.

 

I agree, Billyk.

China has the benefit of all the industrialized world's accumulated knowledge about the dangers of runaway pollution. A wealth of published research exits on the subjects of the effects of pollution on the environment and public health. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese citizens die each year from respiratory illnesses because of the "economic growth at any cost" policies of the Chinese government.

And technical solutions exist for many of the problems, but the Chinese government isn't interested in spending the money to implement those technical advances or require that their industrial sector adopt them for their growing industrial plant.

The idea that we in the West are under some sort of obligation to give away technologies which we have spent time and money to develop, which are proprietary and have legal protection under patent law is absurd.

The Chinese are currently planning to add 60 new coal fired power plants to their electricity grid EVERY YEAR for the NEXT TEN YEARS. That's 600 coal fired power plants and we're talking OLD technology; NO particulate scrubbers, NO CO2 sequestration. They have a responsibility to their own people AND to the world's people to NOT do this.

 

and where does this demand to pollute come from? Look in the mirror. WE are the demanders that someone else produce the cheapest goods for us so we do not have to pay the environmental costs. How do we curb that demand? Stop buying crap from Wal-mart, et al! Is it easy? No. Where's your shirt made? Where is my TV made? Do we in the US make anything anymore or do we just outsource the pollution to feel good?

 

China produces goods for their own citizens for goodness sake. Their market is larger than ours. They have a duty to clean up their act.

 

One thing you're right about, Finman, we in the US make NOTHING anymore. But...
It has NOTHING to do with outsourcing pollution.
It has EVERYTHING to do with outsourcing jobs.

The US demand for more-and-more product is legendary, and keeps many country's economies going. I'll buy the shirt I wear - regardless. Companies (many of them US companies) have found out that you can make the nice polo shirt I wear in China for way less than a buck (w-a-y cheaper than "Made in Mexico" used to be), and sell it in the US for $30-$50. That's what has already happened. These companies outsourced our jobs to China, and many of the workers are essentially slaves, many others are children. Labor laws? Riiight. Social Security? Insurance? Benefits? Retirement? Um, I don't think so. EPA? Laughable. No wonder China can do the work so cheaply. And China doesn't care one whit about changing. Why should they? Companies are STILL falling all over themselves to ship even more jobs there everyday. Problem? They don't see no stinkin' problem.
Everything is headed that way. Soon, we'll be a non-manufacturing country - entirely.
It's all in the name of free trade, but it should be fair trade.

 

Yup.

China's internal market is immense. Most of their development efforts are going to providing energy and jobs for their own people.

China's foreign trade with the U.S. represents around 8% of total Chinese GNP. They also trade extensively with Russia, Japan and the other Asian nations, Western Europe, etc. Blaming China's pollution on Walmart and the US consumer doesn't even hold a thimbleful of water. Just because we trade with someone does not absolve them of the obligation to conduct their affairs responsibly.

 

Sorry none of the above arguments work. Less demand for imported goods equals less demand for polluting energy to make those goods. It's okay. I can't seem to find any US based products either. I've chosen other methods of reducing my demand for imported products, thus reducing the need for polluting energy demands.

not everyone sees the connection with buying Wal-mart or any other retail store and high energy prices, because no one wants to see the connection. It is truly an inconvenient truth about where the US is headed...

 

The "we don't make anything in the US anymore" screed is pretty tired. How can you believe we don't make anything in the US when unemployment is hovering around 5%. All those people are doing something and they aren't all flipping burgers. I know many people who work in or own manufacturing firms. We don't make the cheap plastic stuff because there's no real profit in that.

One fact many people miss is that China, like the rest of the world, is losing manufacturing jobs. Why? Because manufacturing is becoming more efficient so quickly, jobs are lost even as output increases. This is the future and it results in more jobs becoming high tech service type jobs. This is a good thing.

 

I don't know many like that. I know many people that HAD good jobs that now work at Wal-Mart, Target and Sears - stocking the shelves with, and selling you all the stuff made in China. And it's not just the cheap plastic stuff. Take a look around as to where things are made, you'll see. I bought a $500+ Trek bicycle; it says "made in CHINA" right on the front fork.
That 5% unemployment rate is a ruse. Many higher-paying technology and manufacturing jobs are now replaced with lower-paying "service" jobs. Yup, employed alright, just not making as much money. The good jobs ARE leaving this country in droves, and have been for about the last 10 years. They are mainly heading to China and India. This is not news to many, but some people still don't see it or refuse to see it. I see it everyday.

 

That 500 buck bike actually is the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. Bikes costing thousands are made in Taiwan. But. . .we do have bike makers here yet.

It's not just the mid-manufacturing jobs going away, but we have a surplus of engineers and scientist who can't find jobs while industry imports those skills from India. Of course, those cats get paid less than our home grown variety.

China knows it has a problem. Witness its efforts to clean the air around the Olympics. They're even developing a methane power plant using methane gas from one of their coal mines. (And, sorry to ask, have you wondered about our coal industry?)

A lot of crap coming into this country is Chinese. And, if they weren't killing us, we'd all rush to buy that stuff.

I remember post WWII getting a train set for my birthday. Look at the inside of engine and it was a beer can. The train cars were once beer cans. Made in Japan meant crap. Now the Japanese have us by better than a decade in hybrid auto technology.

There's your cautionary tale.