Benefits of plug-in vehicles weighed
#1
03-09-2008, 05:56 AM
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Benefits of plug-in vehicles weighed
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...014/BUSINESS01
I find it curious that the same arguments were so seldom applied against the 'fool cell' vehicles. Of course you must first have one to be able to make the argument. But where there are electric vehicles, there appears to be a fundamental presumption against them being practical . . . all but dismissive. Yet here is a Washington DC resident reporter making this claim.
You know sometimes even paranoids have enemies. <grins>
Bob Wilson
Questions arise on fuel economy, global warming
BY JUSTIN HYDE • FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF • March 9, 2008
There's no doubt among automakers that plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles like the Chevrolet Volt will burn less gas. But there are many questions about how much money such vehicles could save consumers, and how much they can reduce global warming gases -- if at all.
The key for their future in the United States may hinge on where the electricity comes from and whether automakers give those vehicles enough electric-only range -- roughly 40 miles -- to cover a typical commute.
The calling card of the plug-in hybrid movement -- started in California by academic researchers -- has been massive gains in fuel economy. Several demonstration vehicles have shown fuel economy of 150 miles per gallon of gasoline or more.
But those figures can be misleading because mileage suffers from a law of diminishing returns as it increases. For a typical vehicle driven 15,000 miles a year, improving fuel economy from 25 m.p.g. to 45 m.p.g. saves 267 gallons of fuel a year; going from 45 m.p.g. to 100 m.p.g. saves only 183 gallons.
At $3 a gallon for gasoline, many hybrids can recover their roughly $3,000 premium over regular vehicles for their owners. No automakers have made plug-ins yet, but conversion companies today charge $10,000 to $12,000 -- a much higher hurdle.
. . .
BY JUSTIN HYDE • FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF • March 9, 2008
There's no doubt among automakers that plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles like the Chevrolet Volt will burn less gas. But there are many questions about how much money such vehicles could save consumers, and how much they can reduce global warming gases -- if at all.
The key for their future in the United States may hinge on where the electricity comes from and whether automakers give those vehicles enough electric-only range -- roughly 40 miles -- to cover a typical commute.
The calling card of the plug-in hybrid movement -- started in California by academic researchers -- has been massive gains in fuel economy. Several demonstration vehicles have shown fuel economy of 150 miles per gallon of gasoline or more.
But those figures can be misleading because mileage suffers from a law of diminishing returns as it increases. For a typical vehicle driven 15,000 miles a year, improving fuel economy from 25 m.p.g. to 45 m.p.g. saves 267 gallons of fuel a year; going from 45 m.p.g. to 100 m.p.g. saves only 183 gallons.
At $3 a gallon for gasoline, many hybrids can recover their roughly $3,000 premium over regular vehicles for their owners. No automakers have made plug-ins yet, but conversion companies today charge $10,000 to $12,000 -- a much higher hurdle.
. . .
You know sometimes even paranoids have enemies. <grins>
Bob Wilson
Last edited by bwilson4web; 03-09-2008 at 06:07 AM.
#3
03-09-2008, 01:24 PM
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Posts: 3,616
Re: Benefits of plug-in vehicles weighed
Here's how I see it:
Plug-in or EV will INHERENTLY be more efficient cars.
Why? They will undoubtibly be:
a) lighter weight (to max. battery miles range to compete with gas cars)
b) more aerodynamic ( ditto )
c) contain fewer horsepower ( ditto )
Because gasoline was cheap for so long, and gas carries a lot of energy per pound, weight and aerodynamics has always played second fiddle.
Lighter, aerodynamic cars with fewer horsepower will go a long way even without great strides in batteries.
Case in point: I just did extensive research on the Honda Insight.
I think I may buy one:
The Insight can run without the HV battery and still get 70 MPG.
The Insight without the HV battery still has twice the HP of a VW Beetle.
Much to my surprise, it looks like the 144v IMA battery in the Insight was added to boost performance not MPG.
I have learned of a hack for the Insight that will allow regen to charge the 12v battery ( there is no 12v generator/alternator ) and you can actually start the car with 12v also. I read about a guy who bought an Insight as salvage after an accident that ruined the 144v battery, and he could still drive it as a regular car! The only dis-advantage is slow acceleration from stops, but he still gets 70+ MPG without IMA!
Knowing this, I think I am going to buy an Insight. If the battery goes out, it looks like I will still have a good highway car!
-John-
Plug-in or EV will INHERENTLY be more efficient cars.
Why? They will undoubtibly be:
a) lighter weight (to max. battery miles range to compete with gas cars)
b) more aerodynamic ( ditto )
c) contain fewer horsepower ( ditto )
Because gasoline was cheap for so long, and gas carries a lot of energy per pound, weight and aerodynamics has always played second fiddle.
Lighter, aerodynamic cars with fewer horsepower will go a long way even without great strides in batteries.
Case in point: I just did extensive research on the Honda Insight.
I think I may buy one:
The Insight can run without the HV battery and still get 70 MPG.
The Insight without the HV battery still has twice the HP of a VW Beetle.
Much to my surprise, it looks like the 144v IMA battery in the Insight was added to boost performance not MPG.
I have learned of a hack for the Insight that will allow regen to charge the 12v battery ( there is no 12v generator/alternator ) and you can actually start the car with 12v also. I read about a guy who bought an Insight as salvage after an accident that ruined the 144v battery, and he could still drive it as a regular car! The only dis-advantage is slow acceleration from stops, but he still gets 70+ MPG without IMA!
Knowing this, I think I am going to buy an Insight. If the battery goes out, it looks like I will still have a good highway car!
-John-
#4
03-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Re: Benefits of plug-in vehicles weighed
No question the Insight is aerodynamic and lightweight. In the hypermiling festival events, drivers are getting well over 100mpg with this vehicles. However, Honda no longer sells these vehicles in this country. I wouldn't want one for winter usage.
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