I work in mortgage banking, interest rates are always in flux. Vehicle lending is considered short term lending and as such the rate you get on a loan will be determined the day you get the car. It isn't like securing a mortgage loan where you get a rate lock in and then you have 30 or 60 or 90 days to get the purchase closed. I'm pretty conservative financially and I don't like paying interest any more than the next guy does, however if money is tight and the interest rate is a deal maker/breaker you might not want to get an expensive car to begin with.

The Prius radio isn't all that special, but its interface is not standard. I'm under the impression that the core unit is based upon the unit that is installed in the Camry Solara, which also has a non-standard radio system. The biggest difference is that the radio interface is actual physical buttons on the Solara, placed on the dash in a convenient place, and it is through the touch screen on the Prius. This is one of those "get used to it" scenarios. Vehicle manufacturers are increasingly making the sound system part of the electronic control systems of the cars. Swapping them out for those flashy Sony, Pioneer units is becoming something from the past. I enjoy the Prius JBL stereo. It would be nice if they had seen fit to put an aux input on the dash, however that hasn't happened yet.

Well, the touch screen can be turned totally off so you don't see the energy or consumption displays. However after driving it even a couple of weeks, the touch screen displays become something like a tach. You do end up using them to drive with, and their placement is high enough up that it doesn't really pull your eyes off the road. I got my screen fix by having a friend drive the car for a short highway drive while I went through the screen options and watched what the car did. Once you do that you understand what is going on and the screen goes from a toy to a tool.

Well, the beep is only heard in the cabin, and supposedly it is there because there is not a physical position lock on the drive mode selector. I have gotten very used to the beep. I don't intend to turn it off. I don't drive in reverse that much or for that long a period of time.

Well, the back seat has plenty of leg room, I suppose making up for the slopeing roof line. I have a friend who test drove with me and he is over 6 foot. He slouched a bit to fit, but because of the good amount of leg room, he seemed to be ok. I asked him if he was comfortable and the answer was yes. At that time the car was just another option to me, so I felt that he gave me a pretty honest answer.

Well, this message is a long list of agreeing to disagree, but being a recent college graduate Civics were the bread and butter car for lots of my friends. They always felt small to me. Not as small as some other cars out there, but certainly not generous for a compact. Now that I have seats that fold down, I don't know what I'd do without them. What a nice utility feature. No wonder sedans and other larger vehicles are jumping on that bandwagon.

I will be replacing my dealer plate frames one of these days, but when I'm not sure. Maybe today. Anyway, I don't mind being noticed on the road. I don't tend to brake traffic laws and as such it doesn't matter what I'm driving I never seem to be a target for anyone to pull me over or otherwise annoy me.

I like that Frobozzco Chrysler line. There isn't honestly a Chrysler dealer with that name? No, no stickers on my car. I'm glad the dealer I was working with didn't do that kind of thing.

I don't tinker with my cars as a general rule. No tinkering with the electronics so far and I don't anticipate any tinkering in the near future. Although I'd like to point out that replacing a factory stereo system is technically tinkering with a vehicle. Again, I have lots of college friends that seemed to be bent over a rocker panel during the summers with their head and hands under a dash.

Well, rear visibility is no worse than a CRX. The glass design in the back is reminiscent of what Honda did with the CRX to improve its visibility. I think it looks unique and there is no trunk lid for me to be estimating where it drops off as I back the vehicle up.

You're right. Not a huge difference in real world economy, however we still don't know what the long run economy of some of these platforms are going to be. Let's wait another couple of years and then we'll what platform and designs hit the top of the gas saving list.

I don't think you worry and play what if games too much. Your insights are thoughtful and well conveyed. Purchasing a car is a difficult decision, not because it is complex (as dealers would like you to think it is), but because it is a lot of money and a long term commitment, both financing, cost and having to live with a purchase for a very long period of time. Your logic serves you well, so make your purchase when you feel the money situation you have is correct.

 

Afternoon, Jerome. Actually... a 2.9% finance offer that's good until 4/4 would have to be considered a rate lock. The offer is firm and not going to change until after that time. And the difference between 2.9 and, say 6.9, can be quite a lot. For someone with a typical hybrid-car mindset, any savings is a worthy consideration.

I argue with my banker over 1/2 a % all the time. Doesn't matter if it's a 40k loan for a year or a 2.5 million 7a loan.

What an expensive car is is obviously relative. To me, a Civic Hybrid isn't. To many, it is. Regardless, 350 to 400 basis points (as he described was the difference between Toyota and Honda... at least until 4/4) is worthy of consideration.

My wife's '05 Odyssey will be paid for in September. I financed my Accord Hybrid 2 years. My home (a very nice hill-top number) will be paid for in three years, as will our cabin in Ruidoso. I have no other debt. Should I wish to divest a portion of my stock portfolio, I could be debt free now. In addition, my company could be debt free if I didn't like to keep a large amount of cash available for opportunities.

Many of us play investments against debt - i.e., instead of being debt-free, we maintain some debt in order to invest even more, hopefully earning a higher rate of return on investments than we are paying on debt. If this is your game, than rate of interest is paramount.

I hope this is not perceived as bragging - that is not my intent. I'm trying to get across that interest rate *should* be important to anyone - affluent or not.

As point of reference, I'm 42 years of age.

 

My HCH 5-speed will be 2 years old this month.

Here's why my wife and I picked it over the '03 Prius I:
1) Proven Honda Civic platform. The Prius is all new. We're planning to keep this car 'til it's quite old.
2) 4- and 5-star safety rating, compared with 3 for the Prius.
3) Manual transmission, with better highway mileage (see my dataa).
4) Much cheaper than the Prius II, with no wait.

Yes, we'd appreciate more space on long trips, but we LOVE the car.
It's saved us over $500 / year in gas, compared with when our '93 Camry wagon was our primary car.

 

Congratulations on your apparent purchase! I bought my Civic HX new in 97 when I was 19. I've now had it over 8 years and 130,000 miles and have been very pleased with it. Mine is also equipped with A/C as I live in Phoenix where it's A/C weather about 6-7 months of the year.

As for the EPA estimates, the highway figure is definitely dependant on being able to engage lean-burn mode. Unfortunately, there's no absolute way to know if the car is in lean-burn, but I can tell you that it requires the motor to be below 2700rpm and light to medium throttle in order to engage lean-burn. In all the years and miles I've had my car I've gotten as low as 30mpg and as high as 47mpg. It's very dependant on driving style and conditions because of that lean-burn only engaging in light load. The #1 rule of thumb with my HX for getting max MPG seems to be staying at or below 65mph. Anything over that and forget about any chance of seeing that 44mpg figure. In fact 60-62mph on flat, level ground would make 44mpg or so a lot more achieveable.

For mountains and hilly terrain, you'll definitely see the mileage drop off, but not terribly so. On a recent trip I took into the mountains of north eastern Arizona I was still able to return about 41mpg for a round-trip average with an average speed of 60-65mph or so. Do that same trip at 70mph and you can pretty much count on only getting 37mpg. I would say the bottom line is that your goal with the HX should be to beat 40mpg. 44 is possible, but for honest, average driving you should aim more to beat 40mpg.

 

Yeah pretty much, which is something we all deal with. Best advice is stay in the right lane and don't drop below the posted limit without a real good reason. I've done the 320 mile trip from Phoenix, AZ to Demming, NM twice round trip now, basically one tank of gas each way. That's all 75mph, and I'd usually cruise at 77mph according to my GPS just for the sake of getting it over with as quickly as possible without risk of getting a ticket.

It's almost completely flat, other than the fact Phoenix is at 1250 feet elevation and Demming is at 4000 feet elevation. I think I averaged 37mpg on the "uphill" stretch and 38-39mpg on the downhill. Each of those trips was done last year when I wasn't really tracking my gas mileage very closely like I do now. Still, I remember calculating it each time and those figures should be about right. Oh, plus that was with the A/C going part time too, since one of the trips was in May.

Other than the lack of autostop, assist, and regen, pretty much all the tips you read in the FAQ and such for hybrids will apply to the HX too. If you want to get the absolute most feedback to maximize your gas mileage, you'll need to pick up a ScanGauge so you can monitor manifold pressure, since fuel consumption and manifold pressure are almost directly related.

 

My 2005 Civic Hybrid now has about 8000 miles on it. From my perspective, I started seeing berrer mileage around 3000 miles and maybe again at 7000, though I also changed my driving style which may account for a lot of it. The weather has been in the 70s here in OK, and I am starting to see 50mpg pretty regularly on the guage, even in city driving.

Where I am not seeing the mileage I'd like is on the freeway. It just isn't practical here to drive 60mph (though I did complete a 2000-mile road trip recently and averaged about 60-65 and got 48-49 mpg). I'd like to flow better with traffic. Additionally, the Prius has several features I'd like in an efficient car, like DVD/GPS navigation and leather, and being a gadget person I like the other aspects of the multi-function display. Is it worth it? This really comes down to preference. I got my HCH for $1000 under sticker and financed it for 2.9 APR, so for the time being I'm happy. But if I go with a Prius down the road, it would be nearly $10,000 more with all the options I want and certainly less attractive financing.

But what could sway me is the highway mileage. Any 75mph Prius drivers out there? If you can tell me you'll see 50+ mpg at 75 mph, I might think about a Prius down the road.

Jason

 

At that speed aerodynamic friction is the most important characteristic. I plugged number's into Wayne Brown's simulator, and came up with 47 mpg for the Prius II at sea level in 70 F conditions going 75 mph. The Cd has to drop to 0.24 (from 0.26 currently) to hit 50 mpg. I guess that an HCH with an equally low Cd would do about as well.

 

I am debating between the 2005 Prius and the 2006 Civic Hybrid. I test drove a Prius yesterday with the intention of purchasing, but was put off by the difficulty in reading speedometer, the distracting touch point controls, uncomfortable and hard seats, and the tinny and cheap feel of the vehicle. I think there may be advantages of the Civic gas-electric motor combination over that of the Prius. If there are any, let me know.

 

The speedometer I've never found hard to read, so I guess that's a matter of opinion. The controls are distracting at first, but after you get used to them and start taking them for granted, it's not so bad The seats, admittedly, are uncomfortable. I've mentioned this in my 10,000 mile article. I haven't felt it to be cheap, however. "Spaceship-like," yes. Backing out of my garage for the first time was amazing. I didn't know at the time that the car could only be propelled by battery in reverse. Takes some getting used to

 

Did you mean to say the 2005 Civic, or did you really mean you're waiting to see the 2006 Civic Hybrid? Honda has announced that the 2006 Civic Hybrid (which is based on the next-generation Civic) will have both better fuel economy and more power. If you're seriously considering the Civic, look at your situation and see if you can wait until September/October when the 2006 comes out. If it's everything Honda's promising, it might be worth the wait. If it's not so great, you'll be able to get a screamin` deal on a 2005 Civic after the 2006 has already come out.