What about replacing the battery?
#11
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Originally Posted by kmh3
I heard a Honda dealer quote an insight owner between $2000 and $2500. The guy was claiming his pack was "weak" at 75k miles, 5k before his battery warranty ran out. Sounded like the guy was trying for a free battery replacement to me.
Hopefully the civic pack costs less, being a higher volume car.
FYI NiMh batteries almost never die, they just lose charge capacity very gradually, even at 50% capacity you would still get a lot of benefit from the IMA, and I wouldn't worry at all if they were at 70% or better, so I am betting that short of a failure, we will get a lot of life out of our batteries.
How did you test your battery pack's charge anyway? Is there an easy way an owner can do it? It would be nice if you could dump the computer's calibration measurements of the battery, dump them when it is new, and do it again every 10k miles.
Hopefully the civic pack costs less, being a higher volume car.
FYI NiMh batteries almost never die, they just lose charge capacity very gradually, even at 50% capacity you would still get a lot of benefit from the IMA, and I wouldn't worry at all if they were at 70% or better, so I am betting that short of a failure, we will get a lot of life out of our batteries.
How did you test your battery pack's charge anyway? Is there an easy way an owner can do it? It would be nice if you could dump the computer's calibration measurements of the battery, dump them when it is new, and do it again every 10k miles.
I paid the technician a nominal fee ($35) to test the IMA. I suppose you could do it yourself if you had the testing equipment and knew what you're looking at. But I'm so hopeless with mechanical things that I'm lucky if I can operate an electric screwdriver correctly.
#12
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This may be more information than you ask for but here is a link to an article on battery life cycles.
http://www.epriweb.com/public/000000000001009299.pdf#search='nimh%20battery%20re placement%20criteria'
On the subject of capacity testing I can say don't try this at home but here is how it might go. You must start with a fully charged battery. The batteries capacity is 6 amps per hour. That is to say if you put a constant 6 Amp load on the battery it would reach its discharged voltage of .8 v per cell (96v) in one hour. To do this you would need a constant kilowatt loadbank. If it took 45 minutes to reach the discharged voltage (96v) the battery would have a capacity of 75%. I do know that for lead acid batteries capacity does go down exponentially. For valve regulated - flooded cell lead acid batteries it is recommended that you replace them at 70% capacity as they tend to degrade very rapidily after that. I do not know what the replacement criteria is for NiMh batteries is or how there capacity degrades over time.
I used the 144v battery in the HCH for the example above.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
http://www.epriweb.com/public/000000000001009299.pdf#search='nimh%20battery%20re placement%20criteria'
On the subject of capacity testing I can say don't try this at home but here is how it might go. You must start with a fully charged battery. The batteries capacity is 6 amps per hour. That is to say if you put a constant 6 Amp load on the battery it would reach its discharged voltage of .8 v per cell (96v) in one hour. To do this you would need a constant kilowatt loadbank. If it took 45 minutes to reach the discharged voltage (96v) the battery would have a capacity of 75%. I do know that for lead acid batteries capacity does go down exponentially. For valve regulated - flooded cell lead acid batteries it is recommended that you replace them at 70% capacity as they tend to degrade very rapidily after that. I do not know what the replacement criteria is for NiMh batteries is or how there capacity degrades over time.
I used the 144v battery in the HCH for the example above.
Hope this helps.
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Jeff
Last edited by lakedude; 08-26-2005 at 01:58 PM. Reason: fixed decimal point error
#14
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Chances are that the battery won't be the first thing to break on the car... for that matter, your typical non hybrid car will have a major mechanical failure before the battery of your hybrid needs replacement.
#15
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Yes, the battery pack is rated at 6Ah, but that is not the range of use that the IMA ECU is programed for. If you run the battery down to its nominal empty and then charge it up to nominal full, then you run into the nominal stated cycle life problem, i.e. 500 to 1000 full cycle charge/discharge life.
Honda runs the battery pack from about 40% charge to 80% charge give or take 10%, doing that you nerver have anode/cathode breakdown, nor do you vent moisture out of the battery when it is over charged at the full point. One of the previous posters was correct, you end up with 5% of capacity change in about 100,000 miles, and it is linear.
At least that is what we do on nuclear submarines...
Mark A. Delagasse, USN, Ret.
Honda runs the battery pack from about 40% charge to 80% charge give or take 10%, doing that you nerver have anode/cathode breakdown, nor do you vent moisture out of the battery when it is over charged at the full point. One of the previous posters was correct, you end up with 5% of capacity change in about 100,000 miles, and it is linear.
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Mark A. Delagasse, USN, Ret.
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alsadi
Honda Civic Hybrid
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10-23-2012 06:00 AM