Good luck on your pursuit of the perfect car.

 

Hi CGameProgrammer ...

I've been very interested to read your reasons for selling your HCH, as I was on the verge of buying an 06 and after driving the Honda, wasn't feeling good about the weaker EV IMA system vs the stronger EV Prius/Camry from Toyota.

For this reason, I've pretty much resigned myself to waiting for newer vehicles (Ver 3 Hybrids) to come along before buying one, hoping we'll see something like a ver 3 Hybrid Matrix Lithium Battery hypermilers dream (I am trying to replace an aging Volvo turbo wagon and need some storage space)

Questions Please:

1- After driving your new Camry for a bit now, what are your feelings about the two approaches (Honda IMA vs Toyota Hybrid Drive), and your 'Happiness' factor of driving both? I assume you prefer the Camry's ability to do more than just barely glide in EV mode? Personally, I much prefer the idea of being able to run more on electric in stop and go city traffic. Any experiences/other thoughts you'd care to share on the diferences?

2- Without wanting to start any flame wars here, you mentioned that:
"The Prius is worse than the Civic Hybrid in my opinion, due to things unrelated to the hybrid drive (which is excellent)."
Are your thoughts on the Prius related to it's handling characteristics or other issues?
Any/All feedback is greatly appreciated.
Drew

 

I've always thought HSD was much better than IMA since I got much better mileage in a Prius than the HCH, and it was faster too. And yes, true EV mode is great. For instance I was in bad traffic in downtown San Diego last night that was far more 'stop' than 'go' but I didn't really mind since the car never ran the engine anyway. The HCH, however, would have been running the engine alot, even when stopped, in those circumstances. It's also much easier getting good highway mileage if I want to, and it's more predictable; the HCH's highway mileage varied alot for little apparent reason. And the Camry seems to get better mileage on hills. But it's still early (only one tank) so I'll wait til I've done much more driving before commenting.

I hated the steering of the Prius, and its handling, and its cheap interior, and its small and weird gas tank bladder. The second time I rented a Prius, after having owned my Civic Hybrid for a couple of months, I was eager to get back into the Civic because the Prius was so dull in comparison. But I was waiting for the HSD to be put in a car that's actually good, and now I got that with the Camry Hybrid. It's rather large and heavy but it seems perfect otherwise. I'll keep it at least until the 3rd-gen Prius, then see if that car has actually remedied all the flaws of the 2nd-gen or not.

 

Isn't the big plus for the HCH the carpool lane stickers? (for CA anyway) Guess not in your case. It appears the Camry isn't on the list. Regardless, enjoy the new ride.

 

Well, its a good thing we all have hybrids to choose from! Certain cars will work better for some than for others, and anyone driving a hybrid is part of a solution to air pollution or foreign oil dependency or both. With that aside, the fact that the HCHII performs well with a smaller electric motor is exactly why it is more advanced. It does more with the less becuase of superior engineering based on the most common driving habits and speeds. It becomes more obvious to me each day I drive it.

Most of the Prius folks here in Houston I speak to great about 48 MPG in the city, which is basically combined city/highway here. I get about 48 MPG for the life of the car ( HCH II) as well. Of course, the Prius, or any car with HSD is useless if something goes wrong with the electric motor. Not so the HCH II.

However, if someone wants to drive 80-85 then in no way can the HCH II be an optimal choice. Its not designed for optimal efficiencies at those types of speeds. Type A personalities who want to drive 85 and get angry about being stuck in traffic probably are best served by a choice other than the HCH II it seems.

 

Naturally I agree with rysa

People point out the high EPA figures as a Prius advantage but the database tells a different story. All generations and types HCHs and Priuses get within a few MPG of each other so MPG is a mute point.

I also agree that the fantastic and complex HSD will not be an advantage as the cars age. It would not take much to convert a IMA based car into a non hybrid as the systems age and fail. Still an IMA based car lacks an alternator so unmodified they need the IMA system to function in place of an alternator. In other words they won't work if the traction motor fails unless you modify them to include an alternator. Unlike a HSD car an IMA based car will work without the main battery as they do include a seperate starter and 12v battery.

I also agree that if you want to blast around at 80mph a Civic is not for you. A more powerful car would be a better choice, perhaps a TCH.

I wish I could afford to trade cars every six months but honestly I love my MT HCH and would not trade it for anything except perhaps a MT Insight with cruise control.

 

I got the stickers but barely used them, especially within San Diego. I used them on occasion going to or from LA but often that barely improved my speed at all anyway. They'd probably be very useful during rush hour but the highway route I take to get to work, which is 8.2 miles away, doesn't involve any bad traffic at all.

By the way, let's not turn this into a HCH vs Prius flamewar. There've been so many.

 

You haven't driven the first generation Prius. The car wasn't enough power to climb the hill. It made loud noise when the car climbed up the hill and tried to get into freeway. The A/C blew out warm air when the car was idle in the traffic. The shifter blocked the radio control. The gas door was on the right hand side of the car instead of the driver side. It also had poor brake. I had so many problems with my first one and I had to trade for the new one. I'm glad that I got rid of it two weeks ago. Second generation of the Prius is much better than the first one. The first generation of Prius drove like golf cart and the second generation drive like normal car. I drove both of Toyota Prius 06and Honda Civic Hybrid 06 (my brother has one). Toyota Prius has more power than Civic Hybrid. They both drive almost the same except Honda Civic Hybrid stayed on most of the time.

 

Yeah I heard the first-gen was alot worse than the later one... like that it reportedly only gets less than 35 mpg at 80 mph? Definitely sounds like too little a departure from the city-oriented Japan-only Prius... but they definitely understand how to cater to American tastes now.

 

Thanks for the feedback CGameProgrammer ... Generation 3 Hybrid Drive it will have to be for me then

Please continue to let us all know more about your Camry experiences after more driving.

Cheers