Ya! Also, the Hybrid has power sterring which the DX and maybe the LX does not.

 

No Sir I do not agree.

If you want a mass produced product, then go for it - the Honda Civic Hybrid is definitely not one! Made in Suzuka, Japan to a very high quality standard and with numbers to be produced each year for worldwide sales (in those developed countries that import it ) to be about 30,000, it will continue to be in demand . Whilst the Fit is to be made in China and the European Civic is made in England I believe that HCH will continue to be made on home ground. I would prefer that.
As I have said elsewhere I think the combination of the ICE and IMA are sold for less than their true cost in order to buld up sales and consumer knowledge. I believe this to be an excellent 'value for money' product and well worth the wait and cost.

 

rysa4. Right, you do have to be willing to travel a bit to get the best deals, and then you have to weigh travel costs-depreciation from driving 800 miles home-and your time. In general I want to save about $800-$1000 net, if I have to jump on a plane and waste a day. Of course, I like to drive and go to places in the USA I rarely visit, so I factor that in.In general, I would want the out the door price to be $1500 less than local; I will fly 1100 miles for that, but I have the time, and 1000 miles would be about 16 hours on the road-no motel,-and not much on the road cost(especially getting 40 mpg).The 1000 miles is about $300 worth of lost use on a $22000 car by my rough and ready calculation.Figure $200 flight,$300 loss of use and maybe $100 gas,food etc.Make it a mini vacation if possible.
traderfjp, I recognized that Ohio dealer from my Pilot hunting 3 years ago.It was one of the "good ones" who sold a lot of Pilots to out of state buyers-especially out of state east coast-NY,NJ, buyers. They had a good rep back then. I think maybe Ohio isn't "foreign car" friendly like the coasts and like other "Big Cities" are. It might be a union friendly state, and the "foreign car manufacturers" have beaten GM,Ford, by building plants in non union states in the south(Ky,Tenn,Miss,Ala etc). This is the real secret to Toyota's buiilding better cars more cheaply than GM.Toyota's labor cost is $1000 less per unit.There is absolutely no way to compete with that sort of an advantage.It is why GM stuck to big SUVs so long.It is the real reason GM is going to continue a long slow decline in USA manufacturing.Funny thing is that it isn't anyones fault. It just IS! Union Autoworkers would never accept a 50% cut in wages benefits-no one would. Gm will slowly try to drive their wages/benefits down, but they will eventually shut USA manufacturing down, and move out of country. Their contracts-and the fact that they would be struck-makes it impossible for them to emulate the Japanese car manus. and move to cheap labor states. Shame, and no one is really a "bad guy".
Well, that long winded off topic is why Ohio is a good place to buy a Honda.
rysa4- I finally bought the Pilot at Gunn in San Antonio. Flew in drove home to NO.Gunn is still a decent discounter on lowish demand vehicles, but not as good as they were 3 years ago. They seemed to have raised prices a lot.
I have seen HCH on their site for full MSRP as recently as 3 wks ago.Usually they have zero in stock. Wait until the driving season is over, and gas drops in price.Honda will be under 60,000 all year,I think, so the tax credit will be the full $2500 or whatever it is. If you don't mind paying ~$2000 more you can get a PK 4 Prius for $24180. It has the airbags, smart key(I could live without that, but it counts as anti theft with the ins. co.) some other audio junk, and the backup camera that every Prius needs, and $600 more tax credit. At full list VS full list corrected for the credit, it is maybe $1800 more.
I have a Prius even though I prefer Honda as a company. The hatch ( dog and trip room) is the main reason(and the accel advantage). The HCH is a bargain if you don't need the room.
Sorry to run on.Charlie

 

I agree with the frustration, but that's the world we live in. They will sell stuff for what people will pay, regardless of what's fair. That's why inkjet cartriges cost $40 and plastic cell phone covers cost $30, yet you can buy an electric crock pot for $20, or a ton of coal for that matter. There's no sense to any of it. They price things to bring maximum income while still selling enough product. Honda doesn't make a lot on these cars, so they charge a lot and a few people will still buy them. That's all they seem to be after at the moment. Sucks but its true. We as consumers could protest by not paying the high prices, but some joe will always come along and pay it anyway, so we're just out of luck I'm afraid.

I feel the same way about gas prices. There's no supply and demand problem there... the problem is that the companies are logging record profits and executives are getting $125 million bonuses. While they may not be in collusion by the legal definition, they definitely respond to each others price increases. If any company out there started charging reasonable prices they'd sell gas like hotcakes, oh but they'll still sell it all anyway so who would bother? That's our gas market for you. That makes me think, maybe we should change the phrase "sell like hotcakes" to "sell like gas", seems more appropriate doesn't it? No matter how expensive it gets people will still guzzle it down like it's free. In that kind of market, prices will never be reasonable.

 

I have a friend who bought a 2 door civic when I bought my '04 HCH. While they are not the same car and I do know that, we paid the same amount and every option that she purchsed came standard on my HCH but I got 48.8 mpg for the life of the car and she did not. As well, when compared to the car I had before the HCH (a '02 Altima) I saved almost $900 in fuel in 2005 (I never did the calcs for 2004). In my mind, I got the great deal, not Honda or my dealer.

We also have to remember that they are a business and just like any other, they are there to make money. As time goes on, just like with DVDs, CDs, VCRs, and every other product that exists, the price will go down (maybe not as obviously as those other items but when you include inflation, etc.).

 

I enjoyed reading your post. organized and informative!

 

The HCH II is scheduled to go into production here in the US in 4th quarter 2006. Its a fact! I don't know what number is "mass produced." vs "not one."

The Japan plant output wont decrease. The US plant will increase that total. Likely will double in one year. Now some of those Japan Hybrids may go elsewhere, but I have no clue about that. It is cheaper to transport in the same country you produce than ship it across the Pacific.

 

The HCH is a great car, and with the tax credit it is a bargain even at full list.It is essentially a EX Civic auto, and the Civic EX isn't being discounted much-maybe $500 or so.You will pay at least $18500 for a EX Civic. A HCH is about $20,000 after the credit at full list.I mentioned the HCH that sold for $21000;it was $18500 after the credit.

Is it worth $1500 more than an EX?It matches the EX in everything but acceleration.It is at least 10 mpg better than the EX.I'm a pessimist and drive mainly in a city, so let's assume 25mpg vs 35mpg.The EX will use 4000gal/100,000 miles; the HCH will use 2857. Call it 1140 gallons lessover 100,000 miles. You will save about $3400 in gas at $3/gal over the life of the car.You will start "making money-breaking even" at about 60,000 miles.At $2/gal the HCH will breakeven vs the EX at about 95,000 miles.

Now this is comparing it to a very efficient car-a Civic.Compared to a Focus,Neon,Caliber,HHR,Cobalt,all the Hundai products and all the Kia products-it breaks even earlier.The Focus with the best 4cyl Mazda motor will take longest to overhall.The Mazda 3 would take about as long as the EX-it is a nice car(not a Honda though).

Heck, the tax credit makes buying a HCH ,and to a lesser extent the Prius, almost like stealing.They are cheaper,and better than their competition.The dealers are the fly in the ointment, of course, but you will find one that will go list or under list soon enough.The Toyota flies are worse than Honda flies(in general), especially Gulf States Toyota dealers.
At $22000($19,500 actually) the HCH is a real deal.Especially with potential gasoline price increases on the horizon.
I have run on. Luck,Charlie

 

I can't speak for Honda's strategy around supply and demand. My inclination is that Honda would only benefit by selling more cars, even if the selling price were to go down a bit, but I'm sure there are many dynamics I don't know anything about. As far as value, I believe the HCH is a very good value. I'm sure the cost to produce is higher then the EX, not to mention the R&D and engineering expenses that need to be recovered on a fairly small volume of vehicles.

I certainly feel I got fair value for my purchase price, and that will only get better if gas prices continue going up.