Paying MSRP on '06 Civic Hybrid?

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#21

09-26-2005, 02:51 PM

CGameProgrammer

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Re: Paying MSRP on '06 Civic Hybrid?

Well I think few people here are really buying hybrids to save money. I mean, the most popular Prius package is the full-featured one, #6, which is +$5000. Obviously people trying to "break even" would not buy $5000 worth of accessories.

Kelly's BlueBook says I can buy a 1990 Ford F150 for $3600. It's rated 14/16 mpg by the EPA. Assuming the performance has degraded and I would just get 14mpg on average, it would cost me $21400 in gas to go 100k miles, for a total of $25000.

If I bought a base-price 2005 Prius for $21000 and got 50 mpg, it would cost $6000 in gas to go 100k miles, for a total of $27000.

So even a base-price 2005 Prius, over a hundred thousand miles, fails to break even over a POS used pick-up truck, neglecting the price of repairs.

But people don't buy these things to break even unless they're foolish -- there are many other good reasons to reduce gasoline consumption.

#22

09-26-2005, 06:29 PM

Catskillguy

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Location: Hudson Valley/Catskills

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Re: Paying MSRP on '06 Civic Hybrid?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer

But people don't buy these things to break even unless they're foolish -- there are many other good reasons to reduce gasoline consumption.

Mark me as a purchaser who is buying to save money ... BUT, I drive about 38,000 miles a year and my current car I get about 28mpg. I figure to save about 1800 a year if gas goes DOWN to $2.75 a gallon, more if it stays or goes higher.(or I get over the 52 mpg I expect to get with my driving habits)...... Of course, the save money deal would not be possible if not for the expected $2500 to $3150 Federal tax CREDIT and New York's $2000 tax Credit! (The NY partial sales tax exemption expired this past tax year)

That brings the price of the Prius down to about $18,000. Saving $1800 gas a year, it's easy to see how over the long run it will be a cheap new car.

#23

09-26-2005, 09:01 PM

AZMerf

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Phoenix, Arizona

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Re: Paying MSRP on '06 Civic Hybrid?

This sounds like a great poll. I am doing it because it's the only way to stick it to the man and reward Honda for technology innovation. What else can you do?

#24

09-26-2005, 09:43 PM

blueskies

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Posts: 237

Re: Dealer very adept at pricing-breakeven close to 100,000 miles.

I think this is part of the psychological effect of paying for something in a lump sum vs. slowly over time.

Even though the up front cost is more, people would rather have it than be shocked at the gas pump weekly.

I agree that if you pay over MSRP for you hybrid it is just not worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoebeisis

Dealers are much better at pricing and selling product than most folks are at buying it.
The breakeven(gas price wise-ignore everything else) is about 100,000 miles if you have the choice between a Hybrid Civic-or Prius and an Accord.At $3/gal and a $3000 price difference(an Accord LX sedan can be easily bought for $20000-the Civic Hybrid maybe $23000-the Prius is maybe $24000+(with airbags).It will take 90,000 miles to break even-assuming 30 mpg vs 45 mpg).This assumes that you have the relatively simple choice-one or the other,and assuming your current vehicle is "done" and you need a new one.This isn't the usual situation.
The usual situation is more like this.You have a vehicle-maybe an accord,Corolla,Prizm.Camry that has 50,000 miles on it and is currently getting maybe 22.5 mpg average.You will get very,very little for this vehicle-maybe $12000 and that is being generous.Your price difference(between a $24000 Hybrid) is now $12000.The breakeven is now $12000/3 + X/45=X/22.5 -Breakeven-gasoline wise-is now 180,000 miles.Now this is ignoring the fact that you now have a vehicle with zero miles on the odometer,so it will be good for 50000 more miles.Depreciation on a $20000 vehicle is maybe 15 cents a mile-or $7500?.This should drop the breakeven to close to 100,000 miles once again,but you will have to put at least $12000 out of pocket(waaay more if you have a Corolla,any Ford-Chevy-Dodge-big SUV etc)
Dealers are clever.Breakeven is close to expected life expectancy of the vehicle(or at least how long you will keep it-100,000 miles).
Now most folks here will do the arithmetic,and be fully aware of this.Many won't and will just look at gas prices and mpg.Dealers will eat them alive,and in a panic they will drive up the demand for Hybrids.You folks will get them at the best possible prices-maybe MSRP and change-they are the folks who are paying-and have paid-$5000 over MSRP-a lot of $30,000 Prius were sold-and plenty of $3000+MSRP Prius and Civic H's will be sold.
Right now $$ wise,it is a draw-100,000 mile breakeven.
Now many-most-folks here have concerns for CO2 output,and the Hybrids pay off on that immediately.Really hard to price what that is worth.Thanks.Charlie

#25

09-27-2005, 12:28 PM

Tim

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Location: Seattle, Washington

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Re: Paying MSRP on '06 Civic Hybrid?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGameProgrammer

So even a base-price 2005 Prius, over a hundred thousand miles, fails to break even over a POS used pick-up truck, neglecting the price of repairs.

But people don't buy these things to break even unless they're foolish -- there are many other good reasons to reduce gasoline consumption.

Well, you can't really neglect the "repair and maintenance factor" driving a 15 year old pickup with no warranty for 100K more miles than the 150K it undoubtedly has already versus a new car with 0 miles and a full warranty. Not to mention all the additional options and comfort you get with at 2005 prius as opposed to a 1990 truck. I understand your point so that's a bit of a nit-pick, but look at it this way: for the next 6-10 years and for essentially the same amount of money you can drive a) a POS truck or b) a new hybrid. If it's a push, who wouldn't opt for new car? Who sits in that truck for 100K miles and thinks, "This is much better than a new Prius. Soooo glad I got this instead..."

Next exercise: how much more emmissions does that truck put into the environment over the Prius over that same 100K miles. What about the endorsement you make in a technology that has great potential to reduce dependency on oil? Can't do that in a 1990 truck.

Any car is a loosing proposition. They all depreciate. They all cost money to insure, put gas in, maintain, and occasionally repair. No car gives you your money back or allows you to break even. Question is, will a hybrid pay for itself when compared to the same car in non-hybrid form? Yes. Every time - just depends on how long. I don't care if that Prius owner pays 5K more than MSRP. Eventually, they'll get it back in gas savings if they own it long enough. I've saved ~$2000 in gas in the three years I've owned my HCH (over the 1995 Infinity G20 I gave up). However that $2000 or so primium I paid for the hybrid over say an LX is noise. Bottom line is I drive 1000 comfortably on two tanks of gas, and I love every mile of it.

Last edited by Tim; 09-27-2005 at 12:31 PM.

#26

09-27-2005, 12:55 PM

CGameProgrammer

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Re: Paying MSRP on '06 Civic Hybrid?

Well of course there are many good reasons for owning a hybrid, that's why I'll be buying one myself. My point was that if saving money were the primary concern, a new hybrid would not be a great idea. You can buy a cheap regular car from Honda or Toyota and get the same or better reliability and still have excellent fuel efficiency. A Honda Insight's a little difference since it's FE is so high and you can probably get it cheaper than the others.