From the GH.com Glossary:

Forced Auto Stop - When traveling down the road at any speed, you place your automobiles transmission in Neutral, turn off the ignition, reboot the electronics but do not start the ICE, and coast. When it is time to restart, you start the ICE, place the transmisson back in gear, and continue on.

 

You will probably get at most 2 hard brake presses and that's it. That might be enough to get you out of an unexpected stop, but it might not. I don't know of any technology that can predict the future... as in, something jumping out in front of you.

You may think you are clever by pulling the ebrake to stop the car. What you don't realize is that if you pull the ebrake at speed, chance are you are going to rotate your car around. The rear will travel faster than the front, if there is some presure being applied to the brake pedal. Not a good move, nor a good use of the ebrake. The ebrake was never meant to slow your car down. It was always designed to stop your car from moving to begin with.

 

In my HCH I get about 5 stops if I slam it hard. Other wise I get about 1 minute of continuous gentle braking.

livvie, have ou tried it? Or are you just guessing?

 

I would disagree with that statement.

Isn't the emergency brake intended to be functional in the case of failure of the hydraulic brake system?

And why would the car do the following: "What you don't realize is that if you pull the ebrake at speed, chance are you are going to rotate your car around" ??

I use the emergency brake often, just to get a feel for how it performs. Better to know it's capabilities under controlled conditions.

Regards,

 

Million dollar question; thank you for asking it.

I'll admit (for my part) I'm just guessing that 10-15 FAS's a day and the accompanying 10-15 reboots per day will not take too much of a life off my CVT, being as how I use the utmost caution when executing said techniques. RPMs are low, traffic is appropriate, etc..

I'll also gladly admit, or more like it, proclaim, that these techniques can be VERY safe strategies when used properly in proper conditions. Xcel hit it when pointing out that this is EXACTLY the stuff an HCH or Prius II is capable of, and so relatively speaking (since "normal" cars aren't availed to such measures), this is EXACTLY the stuff an HCH or Prius II is made for.

You don't wanna speed, don't speed. I'm not one of them, but there are still people out there who are careful and aware drivers at 95 MPH. You don't wanna P&G, don't P&G. There are still people out there who are careful and aware drivers when Pulsing and Gliding.

 

My 2 cents: The safety risk of doing a true P&G or FAS lies in the attention and skill of the driver. These techniques, like other gadgets in the car, can be distractions. If you are able to execute these techniques without jeopardizing anyone, more power to you. Some people can, some obviously can't.

I'm no mechanic, but I observed that if the car is designed to auto stop anyway, it would seem the engine is capable of frequent stops and starts by design. As for the CVT, I treat mine with care, but that's just me. I think mistreating any transmission is a risk, hybrid or not. I doubt that anyone's CVT failing at 90K would be attributable to anything specific. All you're going to get is, "I do this frequently, and my CVT has (fill in the blank) miles and I'm OK.". Operator beware.

I personally have tried it and don't like it. I don't like the feeling that if I needed to accellerate immediately (for whatever reason), I'd be a couple maneuvers and 2-3 seconds away from having any power. I "glide" in neutral only, and I only FAS at long traffic lights (where I didn't autostop) and in drive-throughs. Suits me fine.

 

No. no. no. I'll say a million times, the ebrake is not your back up to hydraulic system. The hydraulic system is already backed up internally. The front and rear system are separated, just in case there is a failure in one.

Trust me on the wrap around. You never want the rear brakes locking up. If that happens you will get a spin out. The ebrake can lock your rears if you are not careful.

 

If you are telling me that you get 5 stops, then I don't know what you are doing. I can immediately feel a difference in the brake pedal. If you really think power brakes are not doing anything, I suggest you remove the system from your car and save the weight.

 

Well this is were you are wrong. The auto-stop designed into the car means the car is at a stop, while in FAS, you are moving. The forced part is not what the car was meant to do. FAS, let's be honest, is not safe, and is probably doing more harm then normal wear and tear. If you can live with those 2 things, more power to you. To claim that it's safe or to hear people say the laws need to change, blah, blah, blah, is ludicrous. Seriously, if you want maximum mileage I suggest you remove the spare tire, remove the passenger seat, remove everything non-essential. Weight is your enemy.

For some here, that means, remove the power assist power steering (electrical), remove the power brakes, for that matter remove the rear drums, you can brake fine with just the fronts. Yes, I'm joking.

Go to the next step, remove the front windshield, replace it with plexy glass, get a carbon fiber hood, trunk, remove all the carpeting and insulation, etc.

 

Hi Livvie:
___I do not know what more to say. You are talking not only beyond your experience but you are talking non-sense. AS was designed to occur while the car is moving as well as at a stop if the interlocks have been made up. Register this because it is a FACT. There is no guessing, no maybe, no estimation, it simply was designed and works that way. Do you understand that in an AS, your vacuum lines are bleeding off too? Once you understand some of the above, begin the rethink some of the other statements you have made in this thread. You can drive whatever way you want as really nobody cares but if you are going to prescribe to someone what is or isn’t safe, at least know what YOUR car is capable of as well as doing before taking the Holier then thou stance. My Accord when not in a FAS is safer without the ICE off then your HCH is in AS for a number of reasons! This is not a guess, not an estimate, it is simply a fact. Your HCH’s ICE does not start up instantaneously for propulsion whereas the Accord is already running, in gear, and can propel instantly if it is not in a FAS. Do you understand this FACT? Do you also understand that a slower acceleration rate may be less safe then a faster one in case of accident avoidance from behind? What is your HCH’s vs. the std. Accord I4 or V6 or Civic LX/EX for that matter? Do you know I have 100% of my vacuum for brakes while the Accord is running where you have a diminished amount as soon as you are in AS? Are you ready to move on?

___Now that you know that the HCH is less safe by comparison to all other cars that do not AS or even a clutched automobile in a FAS because their ICE’s can start up faster then yours with little to no loss of speed vs. yours via IMA, all a FAS is doing is moving the auto stop functions of the HCH/Insight up the speed range. If you call that unsafe, so be it. You are already driving a car less safe then the average car for the reasons posted above so obviously a D-FAS is less safe then a FAS which is less safe then an AS which is less safe then an ICE running all the time. It doesn’t matter if it’s a Prius in Glide w/ the ICE (not spinning) or an HCH and Insight in an AS below 19 mph, it is a matter of degree and right now, you are driving an automobile less safe then the std. Civic whenever in AS mode. This dangerous design flaw (as you point out) is also what allows your HCH higher FE then its non-IMA equipped counterpart in that one particular area of its driving envelope.

___Now back to dismissal of ones FE … Your FE is good but to dismiss those that receive upwards of 20 - 25% higher is a huge mistake. There are a number of ways to improve your own with degrees of safety added or removed. It is up to you to decide when and where to improve upon it and I would hope you would perform these methods as safe as possible. Simply by paying attention to your surroundings and knowing your automobiles capabilities is a start. It sounds as if you do not have a real good handle on the second part of that statement as well as you should

___Are you ready to sell your HCH because it is unsafe? If so, I know of a buyer if the price is right

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net