My Honda civic CVT is averaging 32 MPG! A far cry from the 50 the dealer advertised on the window sticker.

It makes no difference what type of fuel, brand of fuel, octane level, with ethanol or without.

I have put 45,000 miles on the car in less than a year, change oil and do all maintenance as scheduled, and there is nothing I can do to get the mileage up where they advertised it should be.

I hear Toyota is having the same problems with the prius, and that some have a law suit filed for misrepresenting the mileage in order to increase sales. Is there anything like this going on with Honda?

Xcaliber
Green Bay, WI

 

Where to begin...

Please start your journey here and learn many tips to increase your mileage. Don't focus on blame, focus on good driving methods. With a few simple changes you should easily be able to average 40mpg even under the worst conditions.

Welcome!

 

I should have mentioned, that I teach people how to drive. I know all about proper driving and fuel saving techniques. After all is applied... the mileage is not where it should be... as advertised.

It's not the driver... it's the car. 32 is a far cry from 50.

I suppose these hybrids are only supposed to be driven on open, flat country roads, at speeds of 55 mph or less. They say to use the Cruise Control as much as possible. That is a V E R Y bad idea. Intelligent people would never, ever use cruise in the city, in the rain, in the snow. The opprotuity to safely use Cruise control in ANY vehicle is very rare.

While I am happy with the quality of the Honda, my next car will not be a hybrid. The mileage just isn't there.

I get 28 MPHwith my V-6 Chevy Malibu under the same driving conditions. The hybrid is hardly worth the money for the 4 cylinder "fuel savings".

xcaliber
Green Bay, WI

 

Funny - I have 7,000 miles and my current tank is tank is just about 60 mpg. I have 59.3 on the computer which I know will translate into a few more at the pump. I drive over 55 - sometimes - even up to 70 for short distances. There are many hills, I use the a/c - sometimes., and I actually run to the store and live in a subdivision that is not on a highway - ie there is some stop signs, red lights and turns that I have to slow down to 15 mph. But I'll admit that my commute is almost 90% highway and I am a pretty serious hypermiler.

So I think Honda could go around and and claim that some people get 20% more than EPA.....

 

I had my 2006 HCH II for about a 1 1/2 yrs and I at 1st got like 42 MPG with it. Then as time went on and I got tired of fooling around with it the MPG dropped to like 34-38 MPG. Now in the end I did not drive it in a conservative way, I drove it like any other car and the MPG as I said was around the mid 30's range. So if a person were just to look at the MPG and look at what the Hybrid cost over a non-Hybrid I can see that you would be Disappointed. Hybrids do deliver better FE than there Non-Hybrid brothers but you cannot justify there additional expense simply looking at the somewhat higher FE they deliver.

To some here that own the Hybrids this will I am sure be upsetting to them. However it is my opinion as their opinion is theirs. If you drive the Hybrid in a very smooth, non rushed manner they can and do deliver great FE. But if on the other hand you get in a rush and drive them hard from stops and drive them at higher interstate speeds then they do OK but not great FE.

I like the Hybrid vehicles personally and just traded my 2006 HCH II in on a 2007 HAH (Honda Accord Hybrid). It has the Navigation and also as many of you know has 255HP. It is a fun car and the FE is okay but not just something to jump up and down about. But it is a personal choice and as I said I like the Hybrid vehicles and the technology that goes with them. So they are more expensive than there counterparts and as always you just have to decide what you want to spend your money on. I really do not think you can justify a Hybrid simply off the increased FE it can deliver if driven in a more conservative manner.

Here is a picture of my 1st road trip and I drove 70 MPH plus we ran into road construction for over 15-20 miles of stop and go and varying speeds. Also it includes driving in the city and a shopping mall so all in all I think the Accord Hybrid does well in the FE department. But as I said I do not think if a person was just looking at cost alone you can truthfully justify a Hybrid.







Terry

 

As I said in a previous post. My testimony is that of an expert. (If I were ever called into a courtroom to testify on the subject.)

The only time this HCH CVT ever got more than 50 mph, is right after I reset the mileage guage after a fill up, maybe 2 to 3 miles on the new tank. After that, the average goes down. I'm getting about 300-325 miles per tank of gas depending on the amount of Highway vs. City.

My current average over the last 25,000 miles is 32. (trip B). The car (2006) now has 45,000 on it.

While 32 is still "pretty good", it's not what they represented when the sold the car. If they would have said... 32 on the sticker, I probably would not be so upset with Honda. It's that they seem to be misrepresenting the product mileage per gallon...in order to increase sales.... that's what's so upsetting.

I have been told that honda hires it's EMPG tests be done on their (honda's) payroll, versus an independent that is impartial / unbiased.

In any event, I will check into other hybrids, but will automatically deduct 20 MPG off any window sticker.

I have been telling all of my customers to do the same. If they still want the hybrid, at 32 MPG. Go and get one. If you expect the 50 or 51 as advertised...you will more than likely be very disappointed.

xcaliber
Green Bay, WI

 

As I said in a previous post. My testimony is that of an expert. (If I were ever called into a courtroom to testify on the subject.)

The only time this HCH CVT ever got more than 50 mph, is right after I reset the mileage guage after a fill up, maybe 2 to 3 miles on the new tank. After that, the average goes down. I'm getting about 300-325 miles per tank of gas depending on the amount of Highway vs. City.

My current average over the last 25,000 miles is 32. (trip B). The car (2006) now has 45,000 on it.

While 32 is still "pretty good", it's not what they represented when the sold the car. If they would have said... 32 on the sticker, I probably would not be so upset with Honda. It's that they seem to be misrepresenting the product mileage per gallon...in order to increase sales.... that's what's so upsetting.

I have been told that honda hires it's EMPG tests be done on their (honda's) payroll, versus an independent that is impartial / unbiased.

In any event, I will check into other hybrids, but will automatically deduct 20 MPG off any window sticker.

I have been telling all of my customers to do the same. If they still want the hybrid, at 32 MPG. Go and get one. If you expect the 50 or 51 as advertised...you will more than likely be very disappointed.

xcaliber
Green Bay, WI

 

xcaliber,

I can't speak to the Honda Civic Hybrid, but I can say that my wife and I had an 01 regular Civic for six years and never got more then 27 MPG. The old EPA stickers were always based on unrealistically perfect driving conditions.

My understanding is that the Honda system is good, but does require a more concentrated effort then the Toyota\Nissan\Ford based hybrids for the super high MPG.

This is the reason I wish GreenHybrid would show typical Hybrid MPG results based on Normal driving, Basic techniques, Advanced techniques, and Extreme techniques so we could know what to expect. The common sense good driving techniques will improve MPG, but the folks on this site that are getting the 50+ MPG are using Advanced and Extreme techniques constantly. This is not the way you or I drive.

We traded the Civic for the Altima Hybrid in the hope that we could have a bigger, more powerful car, with the same mileage. We were surprised to get better mileage from the NAH (35 to 37 MPG) with Normal driving (and perhaps a little experimenting with Basic techniques). However, some folks on the Altima forum have not been able to break 32 or so and others report 40+ MPG. There seem to be many factors (temperature, road conditions, length of trip) that effect MPG much more then just driving ability.

I am still learning myself.

Best Wishes

 

Here's a (stupid?) question... does Mexico add ethanol (E10, E15, or highter) to your gasoline? Not that it should make THAT big a difference in your particular car (meaning you getting 18-30mpg).

I know that a few of us here have tried higher octane fuels, but results have been negligable, if not worse with the higher octane gas. I have consistantly used 87 octane (Regular Unleaded) and my last 5 tanks have averaged 51.8 mpg. I have mentioned my driving conditions and techniques in many threads here, but to reiterate (especiall for xcaliber's comment "I suppose these hybrids are only supposed to be driven on open, flat country roads, at speeds of 55 mph or less"), I'm in Sacramento, CA which is in the valley, but with many mild to mid-range hills. If I go up to the foothills (Auburn up Hwy 80 or Placerville up Hwy 50) then there are more extreme hills (some at 7% grade). I do drive conservatively, no A/C unless it gets over 95 degrees, NEVER use cruise control, and stay within 5 mph of the speed limit. I am not a hypermiler by any means (using Fake AutoStops (FAS) or any of the other truly extreme measures to squeeze extra mpg out of the tank. I have no problem getting 600+ miles a tank... I do run 100-130 miles past the last fuel bar going out!

Today, I had 3 other people in the car and the A/C on and drove 45 miles roundtrip. I'm at the end of my tank and went from 550 miles to 595 miles and was still able to increase my mpg by 0.2! Doesn't sound like much but it means I had to be averaging over 65 mpg for the trip under this heavy load (700+ lbs of occupants including myself and the A/C on).

If the engineering tech got 60.8 miles on .8 gallons that would be 76mpg (that's a WOW in my opinion). Even if your mpg display wasn't showing the correct mpg, it would not account for the gas being sucked up so quickly and only getting 300 miles a tank!! Even when my wife was driving the HCH for the first 3 tanks with her lead-foot style driving, she averaged 38mpg and 410 miles a tank! I hope they get things figured out for you.

xcalibur, you say that you teach people how to drive and you consider yourself a driving expert. First question, do you let these "students" drive the car? If so, then they are probably ruining the mileage for you. Have you ever driven a full tank by yourself (and without cruise control)? Also, you haven't said where you are located to give us an idea of your driving conditions.

I am not one to say that it's a no brainer to get great mileage from the HCH... it does take using all the displays in front of you and watching the road ahead of you. But even when I was learning to drive the HCH after being an extremely lead-foot, gotta be first at every light driver, I was able to get 46 mpg. Just for some added statistical data to backup my numbers, here is my data tracked in a program I bought (Ultimate Car Desktop). The first 3 tanks were my wife driving and the next 2 tanks I was really learning to drive the car.

4/15/2007 - 8/4/2007 Civic Hybrid Report:
http://www.vpforums.com/temp/civic_report_8-4-2007.gif

My Civic Hybrid Fuel Economy Chart:
http://www.vpforums.com/temp/civic_fe_chart.gif

 

Maybe some of these drivers have a point. Maybe a HCH driven "normally" gets worse mileage than other hybrids relative to the EPA. Really hard to know. It would be great to have multiple situations tested with different cars.

Like hypermiler - HCH 60 mpg, regular civic 40 mpg
Normal driver - HCH 45 mpg, regular civic 30 mpg
Heavy A/C 40 28
Cold temps 36 26

Maybe in some situations a hybrid makes little sense. For me I went from 22 mpg to mid 50s. I save $$$ - no question. Now before buying I did the math with comparing a regular civic and assummed 35 mpg vs 50 mpg. 20,000 miles per year and you get $500 a year at $3 a gallon. The payoff is obvious. Now when you get down to 32 vs 25 mpg - it is hard to justify.

The other factor is that I think you should also factor the cost of consuming gas (oil) that is intangible and make it tangible. For me that is at least $6 a gallon and then a hybrid is a no brainer. Also factor in the actual cost (predicted) of gas in 10 years - I would guess $5 a gallon - and a hybrid is also easier to justify.