You know JP, I am wondering why you keep beating this to death, Sorry your mileage is not what you expected BUT lets take a look at your expectations.....You are apparently looking at the EPA average of 49 for an 07, but you have an 08? you again are looking at the average for combined city & highway driving, but YOU drive mostly short tirps in the city.....that figure is 40mpg not 47.
I too drive a fairly congested 6 mile route through the city. I live in Spokane WA. yes I know it is not New Jersey but the congestion causes what should be a 10-15 minute drive to take 30 minutes. My mileage is posted on the data page along with comments. It snows here, it gets and stays into the low teens or less for weeks at a time, rarely breaking 35 all winter. We get E-10 gas and I still get mileage in the high 30's durring to coldest part of winter.
Since your profile is not complete, and if one says your tag out loud it sounds like you are making a slur of some type I have to presume you are a troll. You have not completed your profile so I dont know your first name and I don't see your mileage posting in that secton of the web site.
My question is, are you too lazy to complete your profile or do you not want everyone to know who the anti hybrid troll really is.
IF YOU REALLY EVEN have a hybrid, again, PLEASE sell it right away, go buy something that has the preformance you feel you need. Dont subject us to your insults and hate, dont tell us about consumer reports because according to them NO car gets it predected mileage in the CITY.....I for one am just tired of your rants and wish to congradulate you for being the first person to make my blocked member list.

 

The CR report that you are referring to was corrected the following month. Both the Prius and the HCH were shown to save money over the 5 year period, as compared to the non hybrid models (yes I know the Prius doesn't come in a non-hybrid, but they used a different Toyota model). I believe they figured gas would reach $3.00 near the end of the 5 year period. So the savings will actually be greater, as we are already paying over $3.00 a gallon for gas.

To respond to the original poster:

1. road noise.

2. would love the rear seat to fold down.

If you are expecting a luxury car, this is not the car for you. If you are expecting a reasonably priced car that gets great fuel economy, look no further.

 

ditto

 

Why do I keep beating this to death?

Have you taken note of the topic of this thread? I would say I am very much on topic.

I guess you consider expressing one's views as beating something to death. I think poor mileage is a pretty significant issue that warrants discussion on a car that is marketed solely on the claim of superior mileage.

If you want to talk about "driving techniques" that improve mileage, that is off the topic of this thread.

I dont know where I have insulted anyone. Can you produce an example??? I make no claim as to the effect of gas prices, insurance costs, cost of tires. I made the simple claim that I get 33 mpg and everyone jumps on the "you're a wreckless driver" bandwagon.

CR says that 35 is about right...so 33 doesnt seem too wreckless or abnormal to me. If everyone accepts the fact that a person who drives mostly cities can expect 35mpg in new england, then we are all in happy agreement. I guess if you reject edmunds and CR...and other real world road tests, there is very little I can say. And as many people have alluded, this technology is not optimal for this enviornment so maybe people shouldnt be buying this car if they are in a similar situation.

But neither topic of this thread nor the other was to discuss how to improve mileage. So I'm not quite sure who the troll is.

 

I live in New England and commute either into Hartford, or north to Springfield. Both require a mix of rush hour morning and evening highways and some city traffic. I can't even begin to describe pulse, glide, or really any other technique other than just keeping it under 62 miles per hour (perfectly reasonable since the limit is 50 or under once you come close to either city.).

Sometimes I get good weeks at near 50 mpg tanks. Some weeks I get lower, 42-44 mpg tanks. Depends on snow/rain/traffic/etc..

Odd I'm not getting 33 mpg

 

Not necessarily true.

Many of the "driving techniques" are inexorably linked to the hybrid specific instrumentation and features. Neglecting them implies neglecting the vehicle's design goals and attributes that make its FE potential possible.

The common mistake some new "hybrid owners" make is to consider the vehicle's features and instrumentation as "ornamental" and hence not very relevant... simply because some assume that the car should produce the advertised FE results by turning the key and driving off. This is an understandable but often a false assumption.

CR and other legacy publications fit right into this pattern which makes any reports or claims of attainable FE biased toward the low end of the car's potential. This also helps explain why their reported FE figures are consistently well below the averages reported by the large majority of owners... which deems their FE inferences almost irrelevant if not flawed.

Some of us find the CR, C&D, etc, claims very unqualified if not laughable for a pretty good reason - actually, thousands of good reasons.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

Msantos-

"The common mistake some new "hybrid owners" make is to consider the vehicle's features and instrumentation as "ornamental" and hence not very relevant... simply because some assume that the car should produce the advertised FE results by turning the key and driving off. This is an understandable but often a false assumption. "

I think you've hit the heart of the matter. This is not something that Honda makes clear at the outset and it is "understandable" to assume that a buyer doesnt deduce this on his own from standard due diligence. Infact, the only way for a buyer really to find this out is to go on an enthusiast forum such as this one...and find a minority opinion thread like this one.

And there is a class action suit on this very matter that has recently been permitted to proceed.

"John True vs American Honda Motor"

I guess that is where this matter will be decided by jury. Whether the consumer should have done more research...or if Honda misrepresented their product.

"....consistently well below the averages reported by the large majority of owners..."

I'm not sure if the median self-reported mileage on greenhybrid.com is an accurate picture of average mileage gotten by HCH owners. The reported figures represented on this forum represent a selection of enthusiasts that may not represent the overall population.

 

Fair enough.

But then again, the GreenHybrid FE database is not the only source of this feedback.... Nor is GreenHybrid the only site that focuses on Hybrid related issues. So my claims are somewhat anchored on a wider basis.

The "problem" appears to be consistently the same.
People who buy a hybrid vehicle for gas (and fuel) savings only appear to more readily fall into the category of owners who expect the car to do all the work.
Perhaps they drove a guzzler before and never bothered to see beyond the selfishness and vanity of their choices. Self improvement and personal accountability are afterthoughts better left for weird treehuggers and deflecting the blame to someone or something else is often easier and common. We are quite familiar with the lawsuit you mentioned and despite being yet another sad example of the same, many of us see at as necessary.

In the other hand, people who buy an FE hybrid like the HCH or Prius for environmental reasons appear to do their homework more thoroughly and set their expectations more realistically. The funny thing is that these "weird" people appear to be the ones that not only achieve the advertised FE but also exceed it on a regular basis. See the irony here? They buy it for environmental reasons and they save the most money?

Anyway, it has always been a matter of education and those who do their homework and are willing to learn stand to benefit the most. Those who either neglect, assume incorrectly or simply skip the "homework of life" will never attain the results without some inner change & learning.

It's called "life" and its been like this for as long as there have been human beings on this Earth.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

msantos, you are right...ultimately, caveat emptor is the best policy.

However, the other reality is, in our society, there is some expectation of accurate marketing. Where the line is drawn is of course subjective and we obviously disagree in this case.

Fortunately, our opinions don't really matter because a jury, made up of our peers, will decide whether Honda's marketing practices were deceptive.

A judge has recently ruled against Honda's motion to dismiss and the trial will proceed. I'll keep other dissatisfied customers updated on the class action status. I believe they are going to extend the class period for all models years 2007 and earlier.

 

I am definitely in favor of seeing the lawsuit going forward as we need a legal precedent and so far there is none.

However... unless I am wrong, it will also be shown that it is the EPA that should be sitting in the "hot seat", not Honda. And if Honda does indeed have a role to play in this case then the rest of the auto industry would be implicitly attached to this and other cases that would follow - especially if the jury rules in favor of the plaintiff (very unlikely, BTW I expect to be here to discuss the outcome at a later date).

The other thing that somewhat complicates things for the plaintiff is the fact that many of us will gladly and promptly provide depositions in favor of Honda illustrating how we not only meet but handily exceed the EPA ratings Honda and other automakers use in their advertising.

It will be very interesting indeed to see the outcome of this suit.

Cheers;

MSantos