I just returned from test driving the 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid. The salesman I dealt with was a nice guy, but admitted he did not know much about the civic hybrid and had only sold 1 to date. As a result, I have a few questions I was hoping someone could help me with:

1. I drove the car for about 10 miles in town and about 10 miles highway. I reset the MPG meter before starting. In the time I drove the car, I was only averaging about 38-39 MPG. I was driving cautiously. Was I doing something wrong? Was this too small a sample to have gotten an accurate reading?

2. With respect to the meter that displays the electric battery asst vs. charge, I often saw the meter drop all the way down on the charge side, but rarely did I see it move to the asst side. Is this normal? When it did go to the asst side, it was very brief (less than 2 seconds) and only 1 or 2 bars.

3. Does the Civic ever run completely on the electric battery? The honda web site suggests it can up to 35 MPG, but I did not experience that.

4. How, if at all, does the use of air conditioning affect the hybrid systems, electric battery, and MPG???

5. Is the federal tax credit still $2100???

5. I realize this is the wrong forum for this question... but.... Civic Hybrid or Prius? Why?

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

 

GNiel9- not the wrong forum for the question at all! We have had many threads in different locations here at Green Hybrid on that very topic.

1 and 2. Based on your description, I believe I have a few guesses about your test drive. When you got into that car, the battery was mostly discharged, I would guess less than half. This means that the previous test-drivers were leadfooted, or possibly the salespeople, and had been driving it roughly. The reason I assume this is that you say the charge meter was dropping all the way on the charge side as you went along, and only rarely assisting, which is the way the engine behaves when it is going through a forced recharge on a low battery. The battery charges from the engine and from regenerative braking, so if it gets low because of a lot of acceleration and the drivers don't use the regen brakes much or properly, you're going to see power being added to the battery from the engine, which will really kill your FE.

This also explains why your average numbers on the 20 mile trip were so low, 38-39 mpg. I'm sure your driving was fine, or even moderate, but you were starting at a disadvantage and it takes some time for the car to recover and recharge itself, particularly if the first leg of your trip was a lot of stop and start- you did say it was city driving. So that would make it take even longer to recover- the HCH does better on the highway.

Personally, my HCH battery spends most of its life in the top one third or one quarter of its charge. I suppose having a perpetually full battery isn't technically ideal for battery life in the long run, based on what I know about normal batteries, but my battery has worked fine for two years and keeping it mostly charged is better than the alternative, empty most of the time. The only time the car ever seems to force recharging is when I head to downtown Chicago during rush hour- lousy driving conditions. Generally, I drive it lightly, make good use of the regenerative braking, and maintain an even speed to minimize changes in momentum. This keeps my battery charged and my mpg high.

Perhaps you could try taking another test drive starting with the battery charged, or nearly charged, to see how that works out for you, and to get a better idea of what normal driving would be like in terms of mpg.

3. I have an older HCH and cannot speak to the all-electric capability, but my guess would be that the low battery would have prevented you from seeing EV mode during your test drive.

4. Air conditioning drains the battery. Just like the use of any of your electrical systems, the A/C takes energy to run (so do headlights, the radio, the wipers, etc.) and relative to the other features, it can take a LOT of energy, so depending on your driving style and the temperature, the A/C might drop your mpg by 3-5 mpg or so, in my experience. It uses energy and drops mpg in all cars, hybrids as well as non-hybrids, but you might not notice it as much without an instant mpg meter.

5. Yep.

5 again. I love my HCH, but if you have more city driving, the Prius might be better for you. Do a search for threads on this- there are tons of opinions here.

 

4. I believe the 2007 model has an AC compressor that runs off the battery of the car and not the engine. So it's less of a hit on mpg and will also work while auto stop is active.

 

It's kinda weird that they say that it can run up to 35mph on electric because the engine ONLY stops revolutions when in Autostop mode (say at a stop light). However, just because the engine is spinning does not mean you are using any gas because the valves are closed. So long story short, it is possible to use battery assist (at speeds up to 60mph in my experience on downhills) without burning gas, but the engine never stops spinning like a Prius does. I suppose Honda says "up to 35mph" because that's about the highest speed you can use EV-Assist on flat ground.

The caveat here is that driving in EV-Assist mode drains the battery and then you will eventually find yourself in forced regen mode which will hurt your mileage in the long run. Most drivers here tend to avoid EV-Assist.

Why buy a Civic over a Prius? Personal preference I guess. I've never been a fan of Toyota car's driving dynamics so that, combined with the price difference, is why we chose the Honda. The Honda continues to get the full $2,100 tax credit (as long as you aren't in AMT range), and the Toyota credit is 1/4 until October when it disappears completely.

I assume you've driven both of them right? Buy whichever one you like best, but don't discredit the Civic because it's a "mild hybrid" and doesn't have as high of an EPA MPG sticker. This site proves that both cars can achieve amazing mileage if driven properly or "mediocre" mileage if driven normally (but still way better than an average economy car).

 

1. 39.4mpg was what I got on my very first tank. Car probably needs breaking in and there is still some driver training involved if you have never driven a hybrid before. I was averaging in the mid 40's by the third tank.

3. The car never really accelerates in electric only. It'll maintain your speed in all electric mode up to 35mph with some practice but it'll really eat your battery if you do this alot and then the forced regen will eat whatever gains you got doing that unless you plan your route right.

4. 06' and up the A/C runs off the battery in autostop but you'll pay for it anyway as I've seen it eat a bar of charge every 30 seconds and at 4 bars or lower you'll be in forced regen once you get moving again (we're talking 100 degree Texas weather with A/C really blowing). If you're still in autostop at 2 bars the car will come out of autostop and start charging the battery again and woe if you have to start moving again when it's doing that (okay it's doesn't sound that bad but you _will_ notice it when you try to accelerate while it is doing a 3 bar forced regen). For short stops or lighter use of the A/C I suppose it does better than the previous generation.

 

Also to consider is location has a big impact on mpg!

If you live in a hilly region like the northeast, mpg suffers when you are forced to use more engine power to keep up speed going thru rugges terrain, especially pot hole ridden backroads.

What car you choose can depend largely on what roads you travel. If your like me and are forced to use highways to travel long distance for work then the slightly lower honda price combined with insurance savings makes the choice clear. Both honda and toyota are pretty even in mpg during higher speed travel from my understanding.

The Prius has the advantage in around the town driving, if you live somewhere flat, with mostly stop and go local driving the toyota might be your better choice.

 

This is partly true. The A/C compressor runs off of both the gas motor and the electric motor. So while it still wastes gas, it is not as much as in a non-hybrid. Also, the A/C will continue to work while in autostop, because the IMA battery will power the A/C.

 

One thing to note is that city driving really kills MPG at least in my experience. I estimate I get roughly 35 mpg in the city and I just finished a tank at 420 miles with an overall avg of 45, which was mostly hwy driving. The prius does a lot better in the city and on the hwy. My suggestion is to go with the car that you like best. Also, the battery is never "full" or "empty." The computer keeps it between a certain % range for optimal life. Dont know about the HCHII, but in the prius the battery is kept between 40 and 80% even though the display might say full or empty.

 

Is the electric motor only active when the "ASST meter" registers?

 

no, when you see the green bars, it means the electric motor is charging the battery. When the white bars show up it means the electric motor is doing work to help out the ICE.