I'm a little down on our HCHIIs.

We recently took 8 people on a road trip of two hours in both directions. The temps were around freezing.

The cars did their jobs -- got us there and back, but I came away less than impressed.

I have stated before that I find the seats lacking after more than an hour. Well, I was sitting on my lumbar cushion for at least half of the total four hours. My bum was sore even the next day. Granted, I came to these cars from BMWs, but I wonder how even an Accord's seats would fare.

With traffic and hills we did not use cruise control most of the trip. This made it suprisingly difficult to keep the cars together on the interstate. We tried cruising at about 70, but with only a moderate amount of traffic our speed varied from 60 - 80. The lack of power in this range made it difficult simply to keep our cars close. One car would get trapped, fall way behind, have trouble catching up. Is this making sense? Anyway, for the first time, I felt lack of engine power was an issue. Also, constant throttle adjustment got old with my right foot.

On the way home we tried using CC more and the engine revved noisily (and inefficiently) going uphill.

Also, there was a fair amount of wind on that kept the car feeling less-than-stable. Driving home at night, in traffic, in the wind was not fun.

Lastly, we achieved less than 40 mpg in each car. Yes, the cars were full, we were at 70, not 55mph, and it was cold. Still, it was disappointing.

Overall, I missed our bimmers on the road trip. My wife did not. I remember a long road trip to South Dakota were I averaged 31.5mpg in my 325i. That was a great trip. This wasn't.

This will rarely be an issue. I use my HCH for a 15-20 minute commute and I am pleased with how it performs in that need. My wife's car does more short trips about town and exceeds in that capacity as well.

Yet, for the first time, I look forward to a more cofortable, more stable, and more powerful FE car.

These HCHII's are bridging the gap.

Rant over, noflash

 

We just returned from a 900 mile trip from the bay area to LA area this past weekend with 4 people in our HCHII. The trip was long enough to test out the capabilities of a fully loaded civic on a very long stretch of interstate (I-5) and then some steep climbs and declines. The trip down to LA was in the morning on a Saturday (light traffic) and the return was the middle of the night. Temps were between 40 and 50.

We averaged for the entire trip 39mpg. We averaged down (41+) and up (37). As far as comfort, I'm used to a large Odyssey ride but this trip proved out that the seats were comfortable - though a bit cramped for our rear seat passengers. The return trip was 6 hours solid with one stop for a double shot at Star bucks.

I'd have to say, 39 mpg is darn good for 900 miles at roughly 73mph. I used cruise control for a lot of the trip. My alternative vehicle would have been a 04 CRV which likely would have averaged 23mpg fully loaded so no complaints here! This civic handled the windy conditions over the pass north of LA and the long cruise - though rough highway bounce the car around - but again, this is no 4000 pound v6!

I'm happy!

 

Hybrids suffer limitations in cold weather, windy weather, on hilly roads, etc. So, yes, they're a step in the right direction, not the ultimate solution. But at least we're part of that solution -- we bought hybrids, which encourages auto makers to R & D more efficient cars, which means that better options are in the works.

I'm hopeful that we'll have a true alternative-fuel vehicle in five years or so, when we're ready to trade in our HCHs. I'm particularly optimistic about Honda's upcoming hydrogen car. But whatever it is, it WILL be better.

BTW, oil finally traded above $100/bbl today. $4/gal. gasoline can't be far off.

.

 

Seeing that Ford is now advertising 35mpg regular gas effiecent cars, Hybrids will need a lot more bells and whistles in order to compete. Also with Tax incentives going away on certain models, consumers who are looking at mpg have a lot more choices today than 2 years ago.

Knowing my car hasn't done anything near it's mpg rating, having a regular car would allow me to have the following; a warm drive to work, more passing power when needed, a foldable back seat.... there probably more, but those come to mind right away.

It will be harder for people to justify a hybrid car in the near future if manufacture do not extend it's fuel range. The current Civic could probably get 65mpg if they increase the eletric motor and allowed it to power the car up to 35 mph.

my 2 cents

 

Arbittan,

Are you talking about the Escape Hybrid at 34mpg in City driving? Please tell me what non hybrid SUV with that kind of interior room is competing with that? The heat is also great, there is PLENTY of power and the interior is VERY large for front and rear seat passengers.

I agree that there is room for MUCH improvement, but you are comparing a hwy mpg advertisement with a City mpg advertisement.

For some purchasers (like us), that don't drive on the highway much, there still is no comparison available..We are getting even more than the advertised city mpg of 34 at that.


08FEH

 

American's just need to be slapped in the face and given a stern beating.

Underpowered my ***

Everything I've learned point out were just a speed and power obsessed people. It Europe they seem to get by just fine on many models with 1.3L or lower engines. Here in the US we have what, 1 car currently sold with that small of an engine?

We complain about gas prices then just go back to our 5.8L full size Chevy because it has better passing power. We ***** and moan because MY GOD! a 22K HONDA doesn't have the bells and whistles of a BMW and only gets 42 real world MPG. I guess our former V6 bimmer's were getting 41 mpg?

IMHO to those who have nothing but complaints about lack of white lights, homelinks, leather, etc...just sell your civic and get the freaken Prius Touring with every package. Your 30K will be well spent.

End rant

 

Well said. H

 

Totally agree Harold. Well said, Ryan.

No wonder that as North Americans, we look ridiculous, selfish and wasteful to the rest of the world.

Wait a minute, we don't just look wasteful - we are wasteful !!!
Nice legacy folks. Something for future generations to remember us by.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

My wife and I took our HCH II from Charlotte, NC to Cherry Hill, NJ in the middle of February last year. Our 3 year old in the back seat and the trunk filled to the brim, we drove it between 60 and 70 miles per hour. (My wife driving it closer to 70). We had just bought it in November and the road trip yielded our highest mpg since we had bought it: 53 mpg.

We drove it in one day and I had no problem w/ the seats. Plus, most of the drive was at night w/ 30 degree weather. (We did have a large piece of ice hit the passenger side door denting and taking the paint right off).

I'm aware the engine is small and I respect that. I won't drive it pass 60mph, (of course there is the occasional coasting down a hill that will yield 65+miles per hour) and always I stay in the right lane. I've had to completely change my outlook on driving and I'm happy with it. I would buy another if we could afford it.

Arbittan keeps cracking me up w/ his repeated banter about the low mileage he's getting and the lack of admenities......but he still likes it!

 

Actually, noflash, I thought your post was very well written and made some excellent and *reasonable* points. (This is just a very tough place to say even the most reasonable of "negative" things about the HCH II.)

Seats -- yep. Apart from my Jeep Liberty, these are the worst seats for long-distance driving I've ever encountered in a car. You don't need a Bimmer to have comfortable seats for hours on end -- every Chevy and Pontiac I've had did. You can't exactly test-drive seats for long-distance endurance -- the HCH's only start to hurt me after about 8 hours. (I frequently take 10-15 hour trips.) So this isn's something you can assess as you're buying the car. But it's there. I disagree pretty strongly with posters here who have equated your Bimmer-seat comments to "well, what do you expect from a 22k car?" I expect seats that don't make my butt numb after 4 hours, and it's not hard to do, but the HCH doesn't.

Power-at-speed -- yep. I've maintained from day one with this car that the "rubber-band" effect of the CVT combined with low torque makes *maintaining* a given speed without the CC more difficult than in any other car I've ever driven. You can't just plant your foot and then lightly modulate the throttle to maintain speed. The car only responds to very significant manual throttle inputs. Without them, it "gets behind" and then only ludicrously high revs will get it to actually *accelerate* the 3-5 mph you now need to get back to your desired speed. Then you inevitably wind up "overshooting" the speed you mean to achieve. The CC actually does a fabulous job of maintaining speed -- orders of magnitude better than I can -- but of course for whatever the reason, as observed in other threads, it's been programmed to rev the engine an extra grand high on hills and stay out of the IMA (we've speculated that this is because it's "conserving" battery because it can't see whether a hill is 400 yards or 4 miles long), making it pretty inefficient.

I think this effect bothers most people on this board very little because most people here aren't "cruise control" drivers who like to maintain a given speed. We're much more a crowd who goes at the lower end of speeds traffic is doing, tries to stay out of the way, and lets conditions (grade, roads, wind/weather) modulate our speed. You don't notice the rubber-band effect so much when you're driving this way -- it just seems to "blend in" to the rhythm of the drive.

Mileage -- yep. It can be very "normal" on a road-trip. Though if the grades and winds work in your favor, it can be really stellar. I've gotten 50+ mpg across the length of Wyoming running 80 mph, and then 41 mpg going the other direction. I get comparatively *terrible* mileage in (I'm not making this up) Nebraska -- I-80 -- never bested 42 mpg in either direction. I've never been able to figure out why. My average road trip mileage is something like 43 mpg (which is with a very lightly loaded car and just me in it) -- this from the car that can get me 55 mpg on my standard 30-minute highway commute.

Regarding mileage, I do tend to maintain that if you put a non-hybrid in exactly the same position, it's not going to make its EPA est. either, so your "35 mpg" Ford Focus is highly unlikely to make 35 mpg in situations where my HCH II can only make 40. (We tend to compare apples and oranges when we compare EPA ests of non-hybrids to actuals of hybrids.) But I don't have good data to back that up.

Anyway, I was kind of disappointed to see people rag on your post a little, because I thought it was fair and a reasonable match to my experiences too. I *love* the car, but it's not like I think its exhaust don't stink. . . .

cheers --
doug