Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
#1
03-19-2007, 05:57 PM
Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Alright, I am somewhat upset. I just received my notice from the DMV that I will not be receiving a carpool lane sticker for my 2007 Civic Hybrid since they have already given out the 85,000 stipulated by law. Do you guys have any ideas?
Alan
Alan
#2
03-19-2007, 09:57 PM
Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Sorry to hear that. There is nothing you can do ...except trade your new one for a used one that has a sticker on it....
#5
03-27-2007, 12:15 PM
Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Just like the HOV lane is designed to:
reduce pollution by putting more than one person in a car and polluting less per person.
Just like driving a high mileage hybrid does the same thing - reduces pollution per person versus driving a more polluting car.
Now, if you ask me why driving a regular, non-hybrid but super clean PZEV-rated car should not ALSO be granted an HOV sticker, then I do not have an answer.
But as to why clean, high-mileage PZEV hybrids get HOV stickers, that's an easy answer - because a car like that is cleaner than two Tahoes combined.
#6
03-27-2007, 01:52 PM
Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Yeup... don't agree, glad it's gone. HOV was mainly designed as an incetive to get more people to commute together to reduce traffic and in turn reduce pollution. If you don't believe me... what does HOV stand for?
High Occupancy Vehicle... not Low Polluting Vechile.
A car with 2 people in it is more efficient than a hybrid with single driver in it. The hybrid in this scenario is polluting more.
High Occupancy Vehicle... not Low Polluting Vechile.
A car with 2 people in it is more efficient than a hybrid with single driver in it. The hybrid in this scenario is polluting more.
Last edited by livvie; 03-27-2007 at 01:54 PM.
#7
03-27-2007, 02:15 PM
Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Yeup... don't agree, glad it's gone. HOV was mainly designed as an incetive to get more people to commute together to reduce traffic and in turn reduce pollution. If you don't believe me... what does HOV stand for? High Occupancy Vehicle... not Low Polluting Vehicle. A car with 2 people in it is more efficient than a hybrid with single driver in it. The hybrid in this scenario is polluting more.
And the "a car with 2 people in it is more efficient than a hybrid with a single driver in it" statement which you made does have a caveat:
It depends on the two cars involved.
For example, a Prius driven for a year is responsible for producing 3.4 tons of GHG, according to the EPA. That's 3.4 tons per that driver.
A Town Car with two carpooling people in it produces 9.3 tons a year, or 4.65 tons per person in that car.
I know, I know, save your fingers: other comparisons can surely be made to show that the Prius is polluting more. But my point is to show that blanket statements like that are sometimes not the case.
And ask any legislator NOW in 2007 what the goal of the HOV program is, and they will likely say "reducing pollution" since the plan of reducing congestion seems impossible with the way the driving population is growing.
Anything that helps put a Prius or an HCH on the road is a good idea to me personally, but I'm just freaky like that.....
#8
03-27-2007, 03:21 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Lars-ss... might as well save your fingers. I've already given the facts to Livvie in the "tailgating" thread... and she just doesn't want to believe it.
My note had specific limits for emissions for PZEV vs. a standard 2004 or later California emissions light vehicle. It also showed an EPA rating and CO2 emissions table from the EPA. This clearly showed that basically any other vehicle pollutes at least 2X what the HCHII does... meaning two of our cars would emit less than one of theirs.
Livee... The real reason for carpool lanes has little to do with congestion... it's all about pollution. The entire program exists because of the Federal Clean Air Act and the highway construction funds which are tied to it. Here's a quote from an Arizona DOT site:
"HOV lanes originated as an environmental measure to reduce emissions by reducing vehicle use. Federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 require that areas designated as severe or extreme ozone nonattainment areas enact Transportation Control Measures (TCMs). The Clean Air Act includes 16 TCMs (Title 1, Part A, Sec. 108(f)(1)(A) i – xvi), one of which is conversion to or construction of HOV lanes. "
So why shouldn't a special new car which results in the same benefit (reduced pollution) be allowed to use the system we paid for with our tax dollars?
My note had specific limits for emissions for PZEV vs. a standard 2004 or later California emissions light vehicle. It also showed an EPA rating and CO2 emissions table from the EPA. This clearly showed that basically any other vehicle pollutes at least 2X what the HCHII does... meaning two of our cars would emit less than one of theirs.
Livee... The real reason for carpool lanes has little to do with congestion... it's all about pollution. The entire program exists because of the Federal Clean Air Act and the highway construction funds which are tied to it. Here's a quote from an Arizona DOT site:
"HOV lanes originated as an environmental measure to reduce emissions by reducing vehicle use. Federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 require that areas designated as severe or extreme ozone nonattainment areas enact Transportation Control Measures (TCMs). The Clean Air Act includes 16 TCMs (Title 1, Part A, Sec. 108(f)(1)(A) i – xvi), one of which is conversion to or construction of HOV lanes. "
So why shouldn't a special new car which results in the same benefit (reduced pollution) be allowed to use the system we paid for with our tax dollars?
#9
03-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Sure, reducing traffic is another goal in the HOV program, but in this world of Global Warming politics, reducing pollution is CURRENTLY the bigger goal - that's why the hybrids got involved.
And the "a car with 2 people in it is more efficient than a hybrid with a single driver in it" statement which you made does have a caveat:
It depends on the two cars involved.
For example, a Prius driven for a year is responsible for producing 3.4 tons of GHG, according to the EPA. That's 3.4 tons per that driver.
A Town Car with two carpooling people in it produces 9.3 tons a year, or 4.65 tons per person in that car.
I know, I know, save your fingers: other comparisons can surely be made to show that the Prius is polluting more. But my point is to show that blanket statements like that are sometimes not the case.
And ask any legislator NOW in 2007 what the goal of the HOV program is, and they will likely say "reducing pollution" since the plan of reducing congestion seems impossible with the way the driving population is growing.
Anything that helps put a Prius or an HCH on the road is a good idea to me personally, but I'm just freaky like that.....
And the "a car with 2 people in it is more efficient than a hybrid with a single driver in it" statement which you made does have a caveat:
It depends on the two cars involved.
For example, a Prius driven for a year is responsible for producing 3.4 tons of GHG, according to the EPA. That's 3.4 tons per that driver.
A Town Car with two carpooling people in it produces 9.3 tons a year, or 4.65 tons per person in that car.
I know, I know, save your fingers: other comparisons can surely be made to show that the Prius is polluting more. But my point is to show that blanket statements like that are sometimes not the case.
And ask any legislator NOW in 2007 what the goal of the HOV program is, and they will likely say "reducing pollution" since the plan of reducing congestion seems impossible with the way the driving population is growing.
Anything that helps put a Prius or an HCH on the road is a good idea to me personally, but I'm just freaky like that.....
My point is, you should be carpooling with more than 1 occupant in your hybrid... this pays dividends. Pollution and congestion are cut... the goal of HOV.
If the HOV sticker is a reason to by a hybrid then you probably feel as I do that hybrids are a bit of a gimmick in that they need incentives to make it attractive. Otherwise they are a waste of money in their current state.
I feel that once all these silly incentives are done away with, yes this includes the tax credit as well, manufacturers will finally wake the hell up and make a hybrid worth buying.
Last edited by livvie; 03-28-2007 at 08:51 AM.
#10
03-27-2007, 04:00 PM
Re: Ca- No more carpool lane stickers?
Lars-ss... might as well save your fingers. I've already given the facts to Livvie in the "tailgating" thread... and she just doesn't want to believe it.
My note had specific limits for emissions for PZEV vs. a standard 2004 or later California emissions light vehicle. It also showed an EPA rating and CO2 emissions table from the EPA. This clearly showed that basically any other vehicle pollutes at least 2X what the HCHII does... meaning two of our cars would emit less than one of theirs.
Livee... The real reason for carpool lanes has little to do with congestion... it's all about pollution. The entire program exists because of the Federal Clean Air Act and the highway construction funds which are tied to it. Here's a quote from an Arizona DOT site:
"HOV lanes originated as an environmental measure to reduce emissions by reducing vehicle use. Federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 require that areas designated as severe or extreme ozone nonattainment areas enact Transportation Control Measures (TCMs). The Clean Air Act includes 16 TCMs (Title 1, Part A, Sec. 108(f)(1)(A) i – xvi), one of which is conversion to or construction of HOV lanes. "
So why shouldn't a special new car which results in the same benefit (reduced pollution) be allowed to use the system we paid for with our tax dollars?
My note had specific limits for emissions for PZEV vs. a standard 2004 or later California emissions light vehicle. It also showed an EPA rating and CO2 emissions table from the EPA. This clearly showed that basically any other vehicle pollutes at least 2X what the HCHII does... meaning two of our cars would emit less than one of theirs.
Livee... The real reason for carpool lanes has little to do with congestion... it's all about pollution. The entire program exists because of the Federal Clean Air Act and the highway construction funds which are tied to it. Here's a quote from an Arizona DOT site:
"HOV lanes originated as an environmental measure to reduce emissions by reducing vehicle use. Federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 require that areas designated as severe or extreme ozone nonattainment areas enact Transportation Control Measures (TCMs). The Clean Air Act includes 16 TCMs (Title 1, Part A, Sec. 108(f)(1)(A) i – xvi), one of which is conversion to or construction of HOV lanes. "
So why shouldn't a special new car which results in the same benefit (reduced pollution) be allowed to use the system we paid for with our tax dollars?
Your facts had 7 people in an suv polluting more than a hybrid... that is complete crap. Everybody complains about people that say bad things about hybrids because the person doing the spinning is ill informed or doing it on purpose. I find people who spin hybrids in a "good" way just as bad. If not worse.
