You are an inspiration to all of us <50 mpgers. Way to go HS!

 

I'm with you guys-
I prefer the neutral shift ,(when my battery is charged) my car lurches when I restart in neutral at any speed over 10mph. I don't know why. so I'll use neutral for lower rpm & lower gas consumption. I'll only do that when the traffic allows as well- usually on local roads.
congrats on the great mileage mike!

Kate

 

Do you have your foot on the gas or off when you restart in neutral?

 

Hi Tom,
foot off the gas, CVT in neutral, turn key to restart ICE. car physically hesitates, or lurches as if I had a manual and had put it in gear without matching rpms. I've tried it a few times in different locations always below 35mph. Whatever that physical stress is, I think I'll avoid FAS in motion and stick with neutral coasting. Though you, & others who talk about using FAS and p&g don't seem to be experienceing the lurch- do you? what happens with your car when you restart the ICE?
thanks
Kate

 

Hi Kate:

___I am missing a few pieces of the puzzle … I think you know what a FAS is to the last detail but your description through the CVT’s re-engagement sounds like it might need a tweak or two? A neutral coast with ICE on (idling) and shift into Gear with a rev match doesn’t lurch but a FAS after turning the ICE on (idling steady again) and shift into Gear with a rev match does lurch? The only CVT equipped HCH I have been in was Tom’s and below 30 mph, I didn’t feel any lurch whatsoever and I didn’t even have to rev match like I would with a stick. Are you giving time for the ICE to come back to idle before re-engagement? The Computer(s) should see both scenarios as the same so that is why I am asking. With that, the reason the Prius II receives such high FE in the EPA city test cycle is it is running “ICE off” on the coast downs as well as stops. Idling doesn’t cost you much but there is a cost. It is to bad Honda hasn’t figured this out just yet unfortunately

___In the case of my non-hybrid Accord when in a FAS, I always let the ICE come to a steady idle before re-engagement of the automatic transmission which removes most of and usually all harshness upon said re-engagement.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Wayne-
I'd appreciate any advice trying to figure this out.
When I re-start my ICE after coasting in FAS with the CVT in neutral- the car lurches or hesitates as if a gear were trying to synch and engage. while in neutral.
I do not have my foot on the gas, (I'm coasting) and I do not immediately put the car in gear (D). I start the ICE; the car lurches almost immediately; I think 'ugh'; I wait a minute to see if it's going to do anything else; then I put it in gear - which it does smoothly now- and continue on my way.
I don't know if it's something I'm doing, or something weird in my CVT- not fully disengaging?? how could it free coast then? I don't know.....
I know I will never be a super-hyper-miler if I can't turn my engine off. I wish Honda had made provision for a driver controlled FAS somehow. oh well- I'm not buying an '06. I don't have a commute anyway (home office) so it would be difficult for me to hit the top of the list without a regular longer drive.
I love the car- though it does seem like I have to work really hard to get over 50mpg when I used to have a hundai in the 80's that got 50mpg 'just driving like a regular car'. of course it didn't have AC, 23 airbags, a heated seat, a V8, and all the other hoo-hah cars seem to require now. oh well....
Kate

 

Maybe the '03 is different than the 05. Also, try turning off the engine while in drive and try it while in neutral. See if one of them works better than the other.

 

Hi Kate:

___Well that just about knocks the FAS technique for a high/medium speed range decel/accel from your bag of tricks Either way, you are doing an excellent job with your HCH and the tanks you have posted are living proof of that. A bit OT but if you weren’t married, I would try to get you and Lakedude together as he is looking for a hypermile wife and you most certainly qualify

___How about coasting all the way to a stop and then while in Neutral, restart the ICE. Does an ICE start from 0 speed cause a lurch or just when above 10 mph? If the HCH’s CVT acts anything like my Polaris ATV, when in neutral, the belt is still spinning loosely between the powered and non-powered sheaves. When you accelerate, the master or powered sheave shrinks (comes together) to grab the belt and you are on your way. I have a sneaky suspicion that your belt has enough grab in it to feel the ICE start up even though you are still in neutral? Then again, I do not know what is going on inside the HCH’s CVT and given it is a car vs. a smallish ATV, I would have suspected that neutral was controlled outside the Sheaves with a clutch, not just the sheaves themselves letting the belt freewheel in between until the master picks up speed and shrinks to grab hold of it?

___I am speaking well beyond my expertise in regards to the CVT’s action but have you by chance noticed the lurching becoming less harsh as your miles accumulate? Maybe Hot_Georgia_2004 can respond as I believe he has discussed having a lurch/harshness upon CVT re-engagement (not after an ICE start) after a FAS in the past but I could not detect one in his Hypermiling video? I was actually looking for it too!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

I notice this "lurch", but it happened when I tried the following: top of hill, going ~ 40 mph, put car in neutral, shut off engine. Coast down hill and beyond until I start to slow, start the car again (still in neutral) - nothing out of the ordinary. Slip the car back into drive (at about 40), feel a jerk as the transmission engages. Nothing sharp - almost like when you engage a clutch in a manual and picked too high a gear and the engine revs higher than you'd like. This is what caused me to give up the practice. I've read various reports about the CVT going out, and I'm determined to be as gentile on it as possible.

 

I'm not sure about it all but here's what I do.

There are a couple of long downhill grades on the freeway and about 55MPH I'll pop her into N. I'll idle most of the way down the hill before rev-matching, then sliding back into D and get to preparing for the next hill.

At those higer speeds if I don't rev match I get an engagement jolt.

Reboot- (Non-freeway speeds of course)
Before I shut her down I'll pop it into N and let her idle down. It takes about a second and the RPM drops to idling level, then I'll shut her down.
This also seems to help eliminate the backfire *ping* that can sometimes be heard on restart.

I'll NEVER reboot above 40. Even at 40 there's a noticeable tug. If I can, I'll go down to 35-30.

After the restart I'll wait 2-3 seconds for the CVT hydraulic pump to stabilize, then rev match and slide into D.

Works for me.