My vehicle is a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid.
Here is the part information that had to be replaced: 1K000-PZA-L05 Control Unit

Around 8 AM my car battery was dead. I called a tow company to jump the vehicle. The truck arrived around 9 AM to jump the car. The cables he used to jump my car on one end had the normal positive and negative lead connections, the other end had just a plug which would later be plugged into a live outlet on his truck. With his truck still running, he first connected the positive and negative cables directly to the positive and negative leads to my battery, and then plugged the other end of the cables directly into the live outlet connected to his truck. My car started like normal. I paid the Tow truck driver and he left. Shortly after, I noticed the Brake, ABS, and IMA light was on in my car. The book recommended I take my car directly to a dealer to inspect. The Dealer discovered that the IMA control unit was completely blown out and had to be replaced. The Total cost to repair the unit was $2238.18 and the rental fee for a car was $133.84. I called the Tow truck company and my insurance company to explain the situation, neither wanted to get involved because the Dealer won't state for certain that the tow truck company damaged my vehicle. The Dealer did tell me that the jump was what most likely caused this damage, but won't make this claim with absolute certainty.

The Honda book doesn't explain proper jumping procedures save through a battery to battery connection, and it doesn't specify possible problems that can occur through varying voltages or electrical differences. It does explain that you are not supposed to connect the negative cable directly to the battery. It indicates a metal terminal located near the engine, however it doesn't say why or what may happen if you don't use it. The person that jumped my car did not use this.


I've been asking around, not even the dealer can point me in the right direction to find legal information on how to jump my vehicle properly, or how the damages to my Control Unit of my Hybrid were caused. I do know that my vehicle's IMA system was inspected less than 3 months ago and the dealer told me it was working fine. Do I have a case here?

 

I was reading the manual today while waiting for my car to get an oil change, and I did read where it says the negative jumper cable isn't supposed to be attached to your car's negative battery terminal, but rather to the metal post indicated in the manual. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm guessing the metal terminal is a "ground"?
The other thing I was wondering was what the amperage was that the tow truck's live outlet provided. If it delivered far more amps than would have been required to jump start your car's 12-V battery, which from what I've read is a relatively small battery, maybe that caused damage to the IMA control unit.
I remember one thread on another website where a tow truck operator warned about using jumper cables and not a portable jump-pack. Not sure if any of that logic applies in your situation, but here's the link to that conversation; he details info about the proper amperage involved:

http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/jum...brid-t137.html

I also read somewhere that the other option would be to remove the 12-V battery from the car, have it charged, and then reinstall it in the car. Seems like a few extra steps, but maybe it would've prevented the IMA damage.

 

A representative from the Honda dealer called me up two days ago about this. He said he was still looking for some information he could provide me with, but so far hasn't come up with anything of a legal nature that I could use. He did confirm with me what you just wrote about not jumping the hybrid. He said he spoke with one of his lead mechanics, who stated that in one of his classes they mentioned that you should never jump a hybrid battery if it goes bad for any reason. That you should instead remove it from your car and slowly charge it using a car battery charger.

Still, even with that confirmation he doesn't have anything legal that I can take to a small claims court. I hope someone on this site can help me with this. So far it’s already cost me over $2000.

Thanks for the reply?

 

I don't klnow if you have a case or not, but if the Honda official line is now that you cannot jump-start a hybrid car (at all), then this is a very bad thing. Car (12V) batteries DO die, people DO leave lights on, etc. THis would be a ridiculuous design flaw.

Plus, if that is the NEW official recommendation, you might even be able to get Honda to reimburse you, as NOTHING in the manual states anything like this restriction.

Good luck, and keep us posted, please.

 

The instruction for jump start of an 06 civic Hybrid in the owners manual says nothing unusual. Don't konw if there's a difference from '05.

 

I know I've seen a relevant post in this forum:

http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/hon...hybrid-f4.html

But haven't been able to find it. My apologies: I tried their search process, no luck. He say's something like "I've done a bad thing" or "I can't believe what I've done", or something similar, in the subject line.

The gist was that someone replaced their 12 volt battery themselves, and managed to get the negative and positive connections reversed. Several electronic components of the car were damaged in the process.

 

Haha, that's hillarious. I hope the poor guy didn't fry his car.

In any case, I don't seem to be having much luck with my car issue. I'm starting to wonder how much money I've saved with this hybrid from gas, as opposed to the cost of repairs. I know in about a year or two I'm probably going to have to replace the hybrid battery as well, and thats gonna be at least $5000. I'm tempted to trade this thing in soon and get myself a standard Corrolla or Civic.

But that doesn't mean I'm giving up!

 

This recommendation goes for most modern cars, though you don't have to remove the battery from the car. I think we have to separate dangers for the 12 V battery and for rest of the electrical system. Modern low-mainenance and maintenance-free batteries will be damaged or get shorter life if charged from empty with high current, which will happen if you jump start the car and drive of for a longer trip. The high current overheats the battery and boils away the fluid. The smaller the battery the more sensitive, so the HCH battery can't take much. If you find the car with empty battery, best is to charge it with a battery charger overnight. You can jump start it if you have to but try to drive only a shorter distance to where you can have it charged slowly.

But, that is to save the battery. The electrical components should be designed to take a jump start, though there is always a risk when connecting and disconnecting. Connecting a completely empty battery directly to a fresh one is almost like a short circuit, and creates a very high current, which can give sparks and voltage spikes. That's why they recommend connecting the minus lead to chassis or ground, so the current will have to travel a longer way through thinner cables, thus limiting the initial current.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking that what happened to Louie's car may have had something to do with the negative cable not being connected to the "metal projection" indicated in the owner's manual, which must be the ground.

Much of this is over my head, but I found a link to an article about jump-starting, and there is a lot of info in it. The article also discusses the side-effects of disconnecting a car battery in "newer" car models, and how doing so can cause various electronic modules to lose their memory. It would be nice if all this info was spelled out more completely in the owners' manuals.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/battery_safety.htm

 

An interesting difference in the way the HCH starts is that it is usually the IMA motor (which is powered by the high voltage traction battery) that turns the engine over to start it. The only need for power from the 12v battery is to get the car's electronic brain working. My 12v bicycle headlight battery could easily supply enough power to get the car's electronic brain working. Once the brain is awake, power from the IMA battery is made available to the IMA motor to turn over the engine.

Unless the high voltage IMA battery is completely drained the 12v starter motor (yes there is one of those too) will not normally come into play in starting the car unless it is very cold or the IMA battery is just not up to the task.

There is no need for a high amperage infusion, as might be the case with a "normal" car. I would also suspect that a high amperage spike could damage sensitive circuitry, but you would need to find an expert to make a definitive connection to the jump start and the damage to your car's brain. I am no engineer, but I don't believe in "coincidences" when there is a proximate out of the ordinary event that immediately precedes the failure. I'd pursue the matter aggressively. You might want to call Honda directly (there is an 800 number in your manual) and ask them to step in if the dealership is not standing behind you.