Taken for a nasty ride!

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  #21  
Old 12-13-2006, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

Originally Posted by VMA131Marine
After doing some more research, I have discovered that the brakes on ALL modern vehicles are REQUIRED to be able to overcome the engine even at WOT (wide open throttle). The parking brake only applies the rear brakes which produce much less braking force than the front brakes due to the way weight is distributed in the car.

So, if you had the brake pedal pressed down hard the car would have had to experience simultaneous, unrelated failures of the electronic throttle AND mechanical brake (even if the ABS system fails you still have full braking power) for the car to be able to move forward on its own.

Occam's razor applies. Given the choice of A/ a simultaneous multiple point failure (throttle and brake) or B/ a single point failure (the driver); I have to go with B as being far more likely.

I'm not saying that A/ couldn't happen, it's just not very probable.
Thanks for taking the time to do the additional research. It's helpful in understanding this situation better. Given this info, it does look more probably that I'm at error, in which case I'll eat humble pie. I'm still going to have the car checked thoroughly, and I'm still not 100% convinced that I was the only thing to malfunction. It was definitely behaving strangely before I ran into the other cars.

May I ask where you found your info? I'd like to learn more.

Thanks again,
Alina
 
  #22  
Old 12-13-2006, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

The car from the mid 80s was the Audi 5000. The design flaw was that the pedal cluster was shifted to the left relative to most other vehicles. On a few occasions a driver would accidentally hit the gas since it was where they expected the brake to be, with the expected results. Rather than removing their foot from the pedal they just pushed harder since the driver had no idea what was going on. As it was put to me by an Audi mechanic, "The car isn't going to stop no matter how hard you hit the gas." The cause of this failure was determined when investigators found that a switch actuated at full throttle had been crushed by the driver's foot on several of these occasions.

I doubt that this kind of error is very likely in an Accord. To tell you the truth I have no idea what happened. The throttle is electronic, right? Can't rule out some kind of glitch there. Could be a sensor problem, could be something on the control side. Computers tend to be pretty reliable but they can be confused by faulty input. Why you weren't able to stop when you slammed on the brakes is a bit of a mystery. Maybe the high heels confounded the problem by getting in the way this time? It's not like I can talk, but I have always thanked my lucky stars that I won't have to deal with that particular challenge.

Either way I can't blame you for being nervous about driving it again. Even if it turns out to have been some kind of error on your part, you definitely need to know one way or another.

Good luck!

(Oh, and I've nearly run into another car while driving a stick shift. No matter how hard you hit the gas, you aren't going to go backward when first gear is engaged...d'oh.)
 

Last edited by brick; 12-13-2006 at 03:44 PM.
  #23  
Old 12-13-2006, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

Originally Posted by brick
The throttle is electronic, right? Can't rule out some kind of glitch there. Could be a sensor problem, could be something on the control side. Computers tend to be pretty reliable but they can be confused by faulty input. Why you weren't able to stop when you slammed on the brakes is a bit of a mystery. Maybe the high heels confounded the problem by getting in the way this time? It's not like I can talk, but I have always thanked my lucky stars that I won't have to deal with that particular challenge.

Either way I can't blame you for being nervous about driving it again. Even if it turns out to have been some kind of error on your part, you definitely need to know one way or another.

Good luck!

(Oh, and I've nearly run into another car while driving a stick shift. No matter how hard you hit the gas, you aren't going to go backward when first gear is engaged...d'oh.)
Yes, there are a few more variables in the equation with this car it seems. And, it will be good to have resolution. At any rate, it was definitely a wake up call, and I'm being much more careful. I'm curious how the car will behave when I get it back.

Thanks for your kind note Tim.

Alina
 
  #24  
Old 12-13-2006, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

Originally Posted by VMA131Marine
After doing some more research, I have discovered that the brakes on ALL modern vehicles are REQUIRED to be able to overcome the engine even at WOT (wide open throttle). The parking brake only applies the rear brakes which produce much less braking force than the front brakes due to the way weight is distributed in the car.

So, if you had the brake pedal pressed down hard the car would have had to experience simultaneous, unrelated failures of the electronic throttle AND mechanical brake (even if the ABS system fails you still have full braking power) for the car to be able to move forward on its own.

Occam's razor applies. Given the choice of A/ a simultaneous multiple point failure (throttle and brake) or B/ a single point failure (the driver); I have to go with B as being far more likely.

I'm not saying that A/ couldn't happen, it's just not very probable.

This is not true.... on rwd cars you can floor the brake and floor the gas and you will essentially do a brake stand and huge burn out... on the right surface you will remain stationary but with a huge cloud of smoke coming from your rear as it burns to oblivion.

So if the brakes can truly stop the wheel from spinning you would get no burn out.
 

Last edited by livvie; 12-13-2006 at 07:08 PM.
  #25  
Old 12-15-2006, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

On my truck, I can ride both the brakes and the accelerator, and the rear wheels will brake loose. The front wheels will keep the truck stationary assuming they have enough traction to overcome the rear wheels force.

Now on a FWD vehicle, if the car has enough power it can overcome the brakes and start to move by dragging the rear wheels. I had a Doge where I would routinly set the parking brake and drag the rear wheels (I was in Highschool and did dumb things).

Now as afr as a vehicle just surging, it is possible, but I am afraid that you won't be able to find out in your car even if it does have the black box. The black box only holds a small amount of data, and I am not even sure if it records it without airbag deployment. So if the car was driven after the accident it is probable that the accident data was overwritten by new drive data if it does record "non airbag accident events". And to be even worse, you should have had the investigation done prior to body work repair as you want the investigators to have as much information as possible, one of the items being the damage done to your vehilce. This can help prove rate of acceleration, speed, etc...

Whatever the outcome, it sounds like you need to take the bath on the car and get in one you will be happy with.
 
  #26  
Old 12-15-2006, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

Originally Posted by ag4ever
Now as afr as a vehicle just surging, it is possible, but I am afraid that you won't be able to find out in your car even if it does have the black box. The black box only holds a small amount of data, and I am not even sure if it records it without airbag deployment. So if the car was driven after the accident it is probable that the accident data was overwritten by new drive data if it does record "non airbag accident events". And to be even worse, you should have had the investigation done prior to body work repair as you want the investigators to have as much information as possible, one of the items being the damage done to your vehilce. This can help prove rate of acceleration, speed, etc...

Whatever the outcome, it sounds like you need to take the bath on the car and get in one you will be happy with.
Thanks for the info. My instinct kept telling me to have the dealer check it first, but both my insurance company, Honda, and the body shop all said to have the body work done first. But then, why should I listen to them?? Haha. No, it's not a laughing matter, though I can laugh more this week than last. My car is still in the body shop (taken apart waiting for parts), and won't be done until after the New Year.

I thought this was the perfect car. It's strange how things can go sour, but it happens. I haven't decided what to do yet. It will depend on what they find or don't find.
 
  #27  
Old 12-16-2006, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

It will probably cost you more money, but if this gives you piece of mind. Take your car to another Honda dealership and have them check out your car. If they find something, then you have what you need. If they don't, get if fixed at the body shop. Transporting your vehicle (assuming you can't drive it) will probably fall on you to pick up the tab... also having it checked out, will fall on you as well, unless they come back with something that explains it (if and only if it's a defect in the car).
 
  #28  
Old 12-18-2006, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

That idea crossed my mind too, but my car is all torn apart, with one wheel removed. Thanks for the suggestion, however.
 
  #29  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

Any updates on this?
 
  #30  
Old 01-09-2007, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: Taken for a nasty ride!

The body shop just finished up with their work on Friday (1/5), so I took it over to the Honda dealer to be checked. As soon as they heard the word "accident" they barely wanted to touch the car, but said they would give it a 15,000 mile servicing and check things out. Of course, they said everything is fine. The car is driving OK, though I feel overly aware of all the engine stalls/lurches and I have a general awareness of the car doing its own thing. Sometimes you step on the gas and it seems to lag; other times you don't do anything and it lurches. It's not out of control as it was during the accident incident, but it has me wondering. I don't know what I'd ask them to check, and I think a certain amount of this is normal, but I now have a nagging fear of it going out of control again.

After renting a PT Cruiser for a month, I do have to say it was nice to have my quiet and more powerful Honda back.
 


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