I am an unhappy 05 HAH owner right now. I guess I believed I was going to get great mpg's just from getting a hybrid engine. I had no idea how much depended on driving habits and weather and terrain and urban/subrban type driving and length of commute! I did see 60 mpg once, coasting down a highway hill, but that then went to 40 then 35 then 29. As you can seen, over my 5,000 mile lifespan I am averaging 24mpg My wife has a 04 HA 4cyl 5spd and her sister has a 04 HA 6cyl Automatic. We all drive the same areas and are about to do some comparisons. You can see we believe in Honda cars.
I did get mine because it had the most room in the back seat for growing legs and torsos for my kids. It is a great car in a plain brown wrapper.
I did smoke a road raged commuter who tried to pass me from a few cars behind at a stop light ! I was staring at the ECO light and deciding wether I could get above 10 mph in the space I was allowing in front of me. It was a huge SUV and that 255 HP was awesome in an instant.
So I ask you folks what should I be doing next - change to synthetic oil at this first oil change, allow more pillow space between me and the car in front, coast more, brake less, try to remember this is not an Insight, Civic, or Prius, and be happy? Help me out.
Taffeta guy

 

Well;

To re-Post your Questions:

{So I ask you folks what should I be doing next - change to synthetic oil at this first oil change, allow more pillow space between me and the car in front, coast more, brake less, try to remember this is not an Insight, Civic, or Prius, and be happy? Help me out.}

I have a Feeling that (YOU) are not really wanting the answer to your Questions/Comments.

This is just my own Personal Observations and Opinions to (You). You will have to do all those things that you already know about. There is No-Way that just because any of us drive or Buy a Hybrid that we are going to get Great FE. It just does not work that way as you have already found out.

You have to drive at reduced speeds, slow take-offs, run the A/C less, coast more, and all the other things that add to increased FE in (Any-Vehicle) not just our Hybrids.

Read these Threads that I Posted:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=680

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548

This will give you an idea of what you can do but there are sacrifices that have to be made to get (Maxium FE) know matter what the vehicle is.

Good-Luck,

Terry

 

Taffeta-
(nice color for the HAH, by the way)

I'm sorry to hear about your mpg frustrations. I suppose this won't exactly soothe your feelings, but caveat emptor?! There's certainly enough easily accessible information out there warning the public that a hybrid ain't a silver bullett. Especially a big one with a V6 under the hood.

The hybrid stuff is just gravy- you have a trimmed-up Accord, which is worthy of a lot. You seem to be happy with it as a Accord, its just not the magic elixr you hoped it would be. Good fuel economy is like losing weight or staying virus-free on the internet- you can't do it without properly balancing the technology with personal habit. Old/bad/not adjusted habits will ruin any technology.

But you recognize that now, and seem like you want to adjust. NOTE: 95% of these tricks are good for ANY vehicle. They have nothing at all to do with the 'hybrid-ness' of it.

You mention your family also has Accrods, but don't put in any figures- they are a built-in reference level for you!! How's your mpg compare to theirs? Swap cars for a few days and see- it'll help you remember that you're doing better than you would in the non-hybrid V6, and maybe even the 4cyl. IN town it'll be hard, though.

If your driving is around town, there's not a ton you can do to get over low-30s. I mean, its a V6 every time it starts until it gets to a steady load and can cut back. But if your driving is on the hwy, you should be able to meet or exceed my numbers.

You answered many of your own questions:
- space between me and the car in front, to enable#2
- coast more, brake less,
- try to remember this is not an Insight, Civic, or Prius,
- be happy

to these I add the following for good fuel economy:

- ignore yahoos behind you. They can pass you, and maybe they'll break their finger as they flip you off.
- accelerate at under 2000rpm. This is an approximate #.
- get into 5th gear whenever possible- you have to pop over 42mph, then it wil hold to around 37.
- experiment with "driving with the load" (see glossary) in town, but in general I
- use cruise control religiously. set it at 60 or 65, get in the right lanes and relax.
- tires pumped to 36 or 40 or 44lbs (I use 40) (to enable further coasting)
- do not be a "binary driver"- your 2nd comment. If you know you have to slow/stop, FOOT OFF THE GAS and KEEP IT OFF THE BRAKE. Coast coast coast. If you want to extend the coast, use just enough throttle pressure to cancel out the regen, but JUST enough- you don't want to turn the injectors back on. Pretend your brakes are a last-resort means of stopping.

That last part along with staying under 65 has done more for my fuel economy than anything else.

Did I mention to stay at or below 65mph?

I don't want to hear any cra* about "I'll get run off the road under 70- drivers are NUTS around here." Ever notice how people from EVERY region say that? I learned to drive in New York City, cut my teeth in SoCal, and now commute to DC every day. I've seen them all- and they are all the same. 60 or 65 in the right lane is perfectly fine- people EXPECT slower drivers to be there.

things I personally don't worry about:
- 0W20 instead of 5W20 ( I do not do this, jsut haven't gotten to it)
- don't use AC; windows down is less of a mpg hit
- if you use AC, use recirc

And there are a ton of other tips you can borrow from the other forums and tutorials here. Good luck, and be like Bobby McFerrin.

 

let's re-word the thread title. The HAH itself doesn't have MPG problems; it is only a machine, after all, and does exactly what its design constraints and operator make it do.

Now the trick, as an engineer, is to use this 'problem' as the motivation to build something that will meet the original, possibly unrealistic, expectation, even for the inexperienced or unconcerned user. That is how technology advances. Then there will be some other 'unrealistic' expectation that the new generation fails to achieve, which motivates the next advance...

PS- I split this off from the main thread.

 

Dear Tigerhonaker & Gonavy,

Grasshopper is humbled by your quick and thorough replies. Yes I do want all your comments. I am after the truth after all!
I have realized how valuable these forums are. People in my family think I am nuts when I talk about "hypermiling." Gonavy said the most obvious yet least promoted statement, "NOTE: 95% of these tricks are good for ANY vehicle. They have nothing at all to do with the 'hybrid-ness' of it." I NEVER thought about trying to coast a car with an automatic transmission before coming across this forum in February. Besides wasn't it illegal to coast at one time in ancient history, like when we all used to drive standard transmissions? Maybe that is just what my Dad told me.
OK so now my newest tankful of gasoline is the second coming of hypermiling for me. I tried it once, got tired, gave up and now I'm back. Tigerhonaker posted some amazing numbers on his KY trip. I am trying to use cruise at 60-65 in right lane for my hwy portions and will not brake unless forced. Actually, I already do have a negative gut reeaction to having to brake when I am in the hypemiling zone state of mind.
Gonavy's last thread was insight for renaming the problem as one of expectations. You guys sound like engineers who have analyzed these issues for a long time. THe automotive industry is just beginning to hype all hybrids as being the answer to high gas prices. Yes, caveat emptor, absolutely. Sometimes though it takes a while to believe the obvious; coasting more and braking less will increase FE in ANY vehicle, the lighter the better.
SO yes, I may try to post some numbers for the other Hondas, that is a great idea. I don't have any now(I won't make any up), but I will see what I can gather up. Yeah I know I should try to make the driving conditions and the driver as similar as possible across vehicles for an accurate comparison.
Thank you for your support and ideas, they are insightful, helpful, and greatly appreciated.
Roland

 

Hi Roland;

Your most "Welcome" and hope that you get some excellent Fuel-Savings from myself and Gonavy.

Terry (tigerhonaker)

 

Hi there-
you're welcome.

-'coasting' as referred to here is in-gear: foot off gas, or just enough to cancel out regen. Not illegal. Its rolling in neutral that can be problematic in areas (and possibly for the tranny itself over the course of years).
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...40&postcount=7

 

BTW. Here's the old trunk thread that I split this from:
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...s+2005+hah+mpg

 

Roland,

If only 5,000 miles, your engine isn't broken in. You will see better FE as the engine loosens up. I just turned 17,000 and continue to see mpg gains. BTW, Taffeta rules.