Hello everyone, first hybrid and first Honda car

Bought my 2007 HAH 2 months ago, used obviously, with 55k kilometers. Car now has 57,000 kms

Currently live in Vancouver BC, Canada

I'm concerned after reading here and elsewhere, that I'm getting especially low fuel economy out of my accord. My display currently says 11.7 liters per 100kms (24.14... miles per gallon). I've been measuring the liters added vs kilometers and can confirm that the display is for the most part quite accurate. The discrepancy is less than 5%. I usually get 450-480 kms per tank. I've tried regular fuel, and am now trying 91 octane with no ethanol to see if there's a difference. SO far looks like the fuel doesn't make a difference.

Called many dealerships and was continuously told that with no CEL there was no problem and the car just wasn't that good on fuel but was running correctly.

Roughly 50/50 highway to city mileage, approx 30 second to 1 minute warm up done before driving, average outside temperature approx 12-15 degrees C.

My gf has a 1996 Acura RL with 385,000 kms that uses approximately 1 liter per 100kms less than my HAH. Surely something is amiss?

I realize my warming the car up isn't helping my mileage, but could 30 seconds of idle be doing this? I do occasionally use the car's power, but I'm hardly driving this thing like a 19 year old kid trying to impress girls. I've only floored it once ever during the test drive prior to purchase.

Love this car to bits, it's fast, looks great and I couldn't be happier. Just wondering if anyone else has a similar experience with fuel economy?

Thanks in advance

 

Going by my experience with 2006 HAH, I would expect close to 28 mpg with 50/50 city/highway driving and 12-15 deg C temp. When average temp is 12-15 yet morning temperature is 3-4, my mpg takes a serious hit since my morning drive is only 7 miles with a stop and lots of lights. I can average about 21 mpg for the morning drive. So inspite of the average temp being 12-15, you could still see lower mpg simply because of the time of day you drive at. Over the last 4.5 years, my HAH has averaged 28 mpg with about 75% city and 25% highway driving. When temp is 20-22, I get the best city mpg around 26 mpg, with my very short city drives and lots of stops. On the highway, I routinely see 39-41 mpg during summer.

I would suggest simple steps like changing oil, checking tire pressure (I run mine at 35 psi which is 3 more than what Honda recommends), and running super unleaded gas with high quality detergents every 4-5 tank. I have seen about 3%-4% improvement in mpg when I run high quality super every 5th tank or so.

 

I get better than epa numbers but they don't come without driver effort. Here are some things I've found about my HAH and I find work very well. If this is you then your car is for some reason using excess fuel.

If you don't have the green eco light on almost all the time you will see numbers that are pretty much the same as the 07 V6 without IMA. You don't have to drive like a "19 year old" to take a big bite out of the mpg in this car. It is a performance hybrid and as such requires the driver to perform if you want higher mpg. Unfortunately with the ECO light on that smooth sweet power is gone, traded for mpg. There is no free ride to getting higher mpg out of the HAH. (well a couple but they aren't HAH specific)

Don't bother with the premium fuel unless you think there is more than 10% ethanol in your regular and the price difference is small. Can't buy any gasoline here in California without getting ethanol in it and my long term average is around 34 mpg with about 75% highway 25% city. My car has 32000 miles on it. It would have higher numbers but it has more than one driver. For some reason the average drops.

If you have the Nav package use the trip computer page to give you instantaneous mileage numbers and try to keep them high. A scangauge 2 is a valuable help in the HAH.

As you mentioned any idle warm up is wasting your money. The car idles very fast when first started so you might as well be using the fuel going down the road instead of just turning it into heat. Seriously avoid using this car for short trips as it isn't economicial until operating warmed up. I really recommend warming it up moving.

If your car still has the original OEM 12V battery it is likely going to need replacing soon and it is wasting some of your fuel. But not the difference you are seeing.

If you get a chance to take a highway drive of say 50-100 miles and accurately measure the fuel consumption while trying to get the world's lowest fuel consumption. If the car is not getting around 34 to 37 mpg on the highway in steady driving conditions at 60-65 mph you likely have a issue with the vehicle (a/c off, no wind and tire pressure correct, and lightly loaded).

It is really about that little eco light being on as much as possible and only using regen when you need to brake. ECO is available at a water temp of 167 F in my vehicle as read on the SGII. That takes about 1 mile at 40-50F outside starting cold. Once it reaches that number I do a "fake shift" at 20 mph to allow the engine to enter the fuel saving cylinder deactivation mode. Quickly lift your foot off the accelerator far enough to get the eco light but not enter regen. You are essentially cutting off 1/2 of the engines power so it takes a light foot to accelerate once the eco light is on. In the right conditions the IMA motor might help but don't count on it. The battery pack is very small and the firmware is real protective. Don't expect much IMA assit unless you have nearly a full battery or your foot to the floor. IMA is mostly just going to give you auto-stop in town and not much else when you are striving for max mpg.

The car also responds well to increasing tire psi above the cushy ride recommended number and ride doesn't suffer much at all (free). Air conditioning always off if you don't need it and with the Nav package you have to watch out that the car climate control doesn't turn it on for you.

As you noted there is a lot to like about the HAH. Ability to easily get fantastic gas mileage just isn't one of them. But I've found the reasonable mileage is there if you work to find it as well as that nice power.

If you don't see the ECO light it is just a 3.0L Honda V6 with a bunch of extra weight in the trunk and under the hood. Sorry for repeating that.

I think most owners come up with a balance that results in around 29-32 mpg overall. Your high amount of city driving is going to hurt unless you make a game out of keeping that eco light on. And you may have a issue with the car but unfortunately with these new vehicle even the mechanics can have a hard time unless it sets a code.

FWIW I have not found any Honda mechanic's that drive the HAH in a manner that would result in fuel consumption much different than what you are getting. Went in with a minor issue and a tank average of over 36 mpg and after a short test drive by the dealership the car came back with a mpg reading of 30. Service reps comment was it is working great. After any drive by them my trip average always goes down.

Sorry for being a little long and for the mpg numbers and not l/km but I would likely make silly errors in converting.

Vancouver's nice.

 

Don't be mistaken by the name, it's not "premium" because it's better than regular. Slapping the "premium" name on the higher octane is a marketing scheme to increase net profits because most people feel good when they perceive they're putting in a better quality fuel.

Regular fuel should produce the maximum fuel economy. Using a higher octane fuel, if the car's computer can compensate for it, will give a very slight horsepower gain. So slight, you won't feel it in the seat of your pants. Many people claim to "feel" the increased power. But consider you have a 255 HP car, that theoretically can benefit from higher octane fuel by an extra 10 HP (may be the max, but not the norm). Someone's butt-dyno surely must be very sensitive if it can determine the 4% difference in power. Save yourself the money and just use regular fuel from a reputable dealer. Although not all inclusive, check out www.toptier.com.

I'd hardly call 30 seconds a "warm up." Now, run your car for several minutes, that's a warm up, and that'll definitely affect your bottom line fuel economy. For what it's worth, I lived up north for a while. Even with temps below freezing, I really never let my car warm up before driving it. Maybe at most, 30 seconds. But I'd just pull out of the driveway and go down the street with a light foot on the accelerator. I'd drive it gingerly until the temp gauge started to respond. My commute was only 3-4 miles.

The CEL is a diagnostic tool. The dealer really isn't telling you there's nothing wrong with your car. He's telling you there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with your car. Without the CEL, and the associated code, they can't tell if there's a problem without costly and time consuming troubleshooting. Both of which, I'm sure the average consumer wants done, but is unwilling to pick up the tab for. Not to mention the fact that if you do tell a dealer to troubleshoot your car, and they charge you thousands of dollars, and they still can't determine the root cause of your problem, that the average consumer would be too pleased with. Sometimes, problems are just too elusive, and something really has to "break" before we can figure out what's wrong with it.

Just for comparison, I change my oil every 5K miles w/ conventional or Mobil1 (if it's on sale) 5W-20, tire pressure at the recommended 32 psi, and regular 87 octane fuel (usually from Chevron). And I *always* have my HVAC set to Auto. My '05 has over 94K miles on it now, with the lifetime MPG average of 30 MPG. I get as low as 17 MPG for strictly city driving (1 mile commute, lots of stop signs, never exceeding 25 MPH) and I just returned from a road trip where my fuel economy down was 36.3 and 36.8 on the way back while averaging around 70 MPH. My mileage has suffered over the past six years due to living where the summer temps were mostly over 100 degrees and upwards of 117. And other places where winter temps were mostly around freezing and downwards of 0. Not to mention my short commutes, which really bring down my overall average. But I would consider my average for a "normal" daily drive to be around 27 city and 34 highway. I can regularly hit those numbers when I'm using my car for more than just my short commuting.

 

Gonehiking.
How fast are you going on the highway and getting 39-41 mpg. I actually have not been able to achieve those kinds of numbers and I seldom go over 65. 35-37 seems to be the norm and a/c seems to knock off a couple when needed. But I've not given up. Thought I was going to make 40 last summer on our trip to Crater Lake but the car in its most stupid stunt yet decided that it needed to do a forced regen going up hill. Go figure.

If I can't get a good price on a rental in Denver we might drive the HAH to Estes this July for a Rocky Mountan National Park hike. Mine will be the charcoal one with the DRL lights off.

Made my comments about the V6 vs the IMA motor based upon the folks down the street who have a mtched set of his and hers 06 07 EX V6 vehicles. They average around 24. Do you still have EX V6, what year?

Regards,

 

Thanks for the replies. Very informative

I do try my very best to keep the green eco light on. I do not use ac and I fully understand how the IMA works and that it's really a 3.0 litre V6 that can sometimes turn off 3 cylinders. Oil was changed at the Honda dealership and still has 2000kms left to go and is set on 5000km change intervals. Tire pressure is correct on stock Michelin tires with loads of tread left.

I can always up the pressure a little.

Only tried 91 octane to see if the no ethanol made a difference and to see if the reported extra 10 hp was noticeable. I understand octane and heptane, anti knock additives etc quite well.

My real concern was my girlfriend's very high mileage 3.5 litre engine RL has the same and often better fuel economy than my HAH. It's worn right out and is 11 years older. We both use each car, but I use the accord more.

Yes, sometimes the morning is still a little chilly, and yes, I do have a short commute to work. Sounds like I could just be on par from what you guys have said.

Don't suppose a K&N filter would make a difference at all? Just curious...

I'd love to try this car for a road trip and to really see the highway fuel consumption, but haven't gotten the opportunity as I spend entirely too much time working.

I've got no problem with the fuel consumption I'm getting, just was concerned it wasn't correct.

thanks again for the help

 

How long (in minutes) do you drive in one trip? Do you have a lot of stops (or stop&go traffic) along the way? What is the terrain you drive on (hills of flats)? These little things make big difference to FE of HAH.
I get the same mileage in short city drives even in the summer.

 

Depending on which job I'm heading to I drive between 7-10 or 5-7 minutes only. One job has no hills and the other has a bridge but is otherwise flat. I think this is why my mileage is so low.

When my girlfriend takes the car her commute is 25kms each way 100% highway the whole time all dead flat and shes says the display reflects accordingly. She doesn't take the accord quite as often as I do.

I actually bought this car because it was faster and more powerful than the regular V6 model, not because I wanted a super efficient car. I was just concerned the car was using too much fuel and therefore it may be running incorrectly. I wasn't worried I was spending too much on fuel or anything like that. The main reason I drive it so gingerly at the moment is because it's so new to me, but I did buy it for the power more than anything else.

thanks for the help everyone, think I've figured out my answer.

Here's a fun fact if you guys didn't know- the anti sway bars front and rear from an acura TL bolt right onto this car and are very inexpensive from the dealer. Yep, the type S ones fit too if you need even more

Anyone done this?

 

I have a electric vehicle that I bought in 04 and use it for drives within about a 15 mile radius. A perfect use of a BEV and it keeps the HAH out of that not so efficient city traffic mode.

Glad we could share some info and that you are happy with the HAH. As production cars go they are rather few and far between.

Interesting about the sway bars. My daughter has a 2006 Acura TL and she likes driving the HAH as it isn't as "harsh". But she picked the TL over a 06 HAH when she bought it. I think the ride is as much about the tires on the TL as the suspension. She gets about the same mileage as your HAH in pretty similar conditions. Her work commute is about a mile each way. (sometimes she walks) And then the local "soccer Mom" stuff. Low 30's on highway at Psl.

Don't believe that a K&N will do anything for you unless you spend a lot of time near WOT. Did nothing but give my neighbors 05 toyota Tundra constant check engine lights that the dealer attibuted to the oil on the K&N getting on the mass air sensor. (that is what they said) All I know is when he took it off the issue stayed gone. I use them on some vintage vehicles.

Still have a few years worth of Honda warranty on the HAH so I don't give them any reason to not pay for a repair.

 

I usually see 39-41 when driving around 78 mph on interstates. I use cruise control and keep the tires at 35 psi. I don't shy away from using a/c either. I do keep it at 78 deg though and bump up the fan speed if it starts feeling little too warm. Highest I ever saw was the drive from Fountain to Fort Collins in Colorado when I got 42 mpg. Those numbers are from trip computer from just before I exit interstate into a city and then that number starts dropping fast. The lowest I have seen was 18.2 mpg when temp was around 10 deg F with wind chill reaching into negative territory and my driving was 100% short commutes in the city with lots of stop lights.

I still have the EX-V6 6MT. It is a 2006 just like my HAH.