Is Honda's 0W-20 a standard motor oil or synthetic? I thought a lot of new motors come with mineral oil in the engine to help break it in and they want you to change it a bit early since the oil might have a bit of extra metal in it as the rings seat. I did not see anything like that in the manual. Lastly what about Mobil 1 0W-20 synthetic? Do most people prefer it over the Honda oil and does it give any better gas mileage (ie lower kinematic viscosity)? My salesman told me something that sounded a bit rediculous; he said that I should not put synthetic into the engine until 30,000 miles as a hybrid engine takes longer to break in. I think he is on crack. How long did you guys wait until switching to synthetic? I have just under 1000 miles on the car now but it still shows 90% life on the factory oil.

 

I don't believe that the Honda oil is synthetic. I've seen lots of threads on this and no one has been able to determine one way or the other. Evidently, the labels on the Honda product do not identify it as synth... so we're assuming it's not.

I've heard that Honda has recommended NOT to change the oil early, as there are some additives which need the full service interval to work their break-in magic.

My HCHII now has about 8,500 miles and the maintenance light just came on. It shows 15% remaining. I've already purchased the Mobil One 0w20 oil (at Walmart for $4.95 per quart) and the filter and the "crush washer". Incidentally, the "crush washer" isn't a crush washer at all. It's just a standard solid aluminum washer. I see no reason why it can't be reused a few times... but it's only a few cents, so I'll go ahead and replace it!

I'm going to replace the oil this weekend... a little early, but I'm getting sick of seeing the wrench light come on each time I start the car!

 

As Anahymbrid says - conflicting info on the 'synthetic' quality for Honda's variety of 0W-20. There's a site I frequent called 'bobistheoilguy.com' (not a technical sounding name, but some of the subjects discussed there can be very technical in nature). Over there, the consensus seems to be that any '0W' oil is a synoil by default. Someone on this site (?) called AHM and was told that the oil was not synthetic - but they probably spoke to a CSR, not an engineering-type person. So I'll withhold judgment for now on syn vs dino.

As for the additive - it's Molybdenum disulfide (MOS2 - that should be a subscript '2', btw, but we don't have super/subscript available here ). Honda has their oil contractor (ExxonMobil at last check) add a healthy shot of this - over 500 ppm - to the factory fill. Even the bottled Honda oil that you get from the dealer has ~ 200-300 ppm of MOS2 (most oils generally have low amounts of this anti-wear additive - M1, for example, has ~ 50-70 ppm, depending on the viscosity that you buy. A couple of notable exceptions to this are Havoline TropArtic and Redline).

When I had the Accord's factory fill analyzed - Moly came back at ~ 560 ppm. The Civic came out at 543 ppm, as I look at the initial report. I changed out the Civic's oil myself at about 4400mi - the OLM had just switched to '60%', and seemed to be dropping 10% every 750-900mi, which would put me at about a 7500mi interval - or right at the standardized point at which the 'service engine' (change oil) light would come on in my Hondas before they went to the new Maintenance Minder system this year. I like to get the silicones and any wear metals out, as well - hence, I changed the oil a bit earlier than many here.

As far as what went in - I did use the bottled Honda 0W-20, but with a little something extra - 1oz per qt of Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment (or a little over 3oz total for the Civic's sump). Why VSOT ? Because it's a popular additive for adding extra Moly to oils that don't have a lot of it as mentioned above. VSOT has something like 1400 ppm of Moly - thus, you only need about 1oz /qt for our application. Am I telling you to do this with your own engine ? No. You have to premix and heat it before putting it in the car (tricky), and what you put in your car should be your own choice. Also note that AHM says "don't use additives" in your oil, so do what they say and you'll be fine for warranty.

On the M1 - there are those who say that you'll get a little better mpg with it, due to the kinematic - you had that right I changed out to this on my second oil change at 8800 mi (that's when my OLM dropped to 15% - I didn't reset it at the first change for reasons I won't go into here). I noted that the valvetrain sounded a little noisier at first start-up with the M1, and to tell you the truth, I'm not noticing a mileage bump like I seemed to get with the Accord when I put the M1 5w-20 in that car. Of course, now that the weather's warmer, I'm using A/C, so that has something to do with it, and I'm not commuting to work these days, so my driving is a little different as well.

As far as break-in - I noticed the engine seemed to loosen up a bit at about 1700mi on the Accord, and about 1800-2200 on the Civic. Generally, a Honda engine is considered to be done with the initial break-in around this mileage, another bump at about 5000mi, and fully broken in at about 10,000 (some people say it can go to 25K, but that's not been my experience with the seven Hondas I've owned, at least). Why your dealer might have mentioned "30K" ? Could be due to the more frequent startups, due to auto-stop. Most engine wear is in the first few minutes after you start it, as the oil comes up to temp. But I'm climbing into his head to guess on that one. I've got just over 10K on mine now, and the engine feels pretty loose now (revs freer) - right on schedule

If you're interested in mileage, make sure you don't overfill the sump - doing so can produce oil foaming, and create more resistance for the crankshaft to move through. In fact, many people (and I'm one of them) *underfill* by about 0.5qt (in between the 'min' / 'max' lines on the dipstick) to try and get better mpg. Hondas are exceptionally good with oil control on average (the K-series engine in the current Si being a notable exception), so you don't need to worry too much about getting down to the 'min' level if you do this (I do check mine every couple of weeks, and sure enough, the level is steady as a rock).

Finally, on the crush washer - it's actually a bi-metal washer (look at it on edge, and you'll see). The 'shinier', more rounded side goes against the oil pan, and the duller, flatter side goes against the bolt. If you torque the bolt to the specified 29 ft-lbs, you'll notice that when you remove it at the next change, there's no visible indentation on the 'soft' side of the washer. So, really, the crush washer's purpose is for those who live by the 'tighter is better' rule and really use brute force to tighten the bolt

With regard to tightening properly - A little trick I started making use of for reference: When you get under the car, you'll notice a mark that goes across the oil pan bolt and on the pan itself (mine was green in color). This is a 'code' that the assembly techs use to signify that the bolt is tight and the oil can be added to the sump (you'll notice a blue mark on the CVT pan / bolt). I used a Sharpee to remark this line when I changed out the oil - that way, if I took the car in for the 2nd change, they wouldn't know that I had changed it prior. I also noted that when I torqued the bolt down to the specified 29 ft-lbs, that it lined up exactly to the mark across the bolt / pan. So now I just use that mark as my reference point and save the trouble of digging out the torque wrench Hope that helps those of you who are DIY on the oil changes (don't forget to rotate the tires, too!)

 

Mark; Excelent summary & details !

Even though I always do my oil changes at the dealership, I think the details and presentation in your post will help many folks understand the differences between the oils and the "why's" in their use. Great Stuff.

Cheers;


MSantos

 

I use 0W-20 on my HCH I. Now at 80K no problems. I switch out ever 10K miles and use a Mobil Oil filter too.

 

I called my local dealer today, which is not who I bought the car from as nobody local had them in stock, and they suggested I change the factory oil at 4-5K. They then stay with the Honda 0W-20 until 10k before switching to Mobil 1 synthetic. I assume this is to fully break in the engine before going to a very low wear oil.

This contradicts the other posts suggesting that Honda recommends keeping the factory oil in until the service light comes on. The problem with these types of questions is the answer normally depends on who you talk to. What have you guys been told? What is your opinion?

The dealership also said that they will not install any other brand of oil filter other than the Honda filter. Is the Honda filter a good filter or should I go elsewhere for oil change service?

 

GreenAndBlue... Thanks for the great info you posted! It will be helpful.

I'd be careful about using marks to ensure proper torque, though. Wear in the threads (with repeated oil changes), bolt stretching and variances in the tolerances for the crush washer could really change where the bolt stops for a given torque setting. Actually, even the addition of oil could change this... the initial installation (factory) most likely had no oil on the threads. 28 ft-lb could come up sooner (less turning of the bolt) with no lubricant on the threads and washer surface.

BTW, my initial inspection of the washer was that it was just a solid aluminum piece. I'll have to look again for the bi-metal construction! Most of the "true" crush washers I've seen are of a crimped and semi-hollow construction... so that's what I was looking for.

Also, what recommendations (if any) do you have for CVT fluid?

 

The notion of waiting a significant number of miles, whether that be 10K, 20K, or 30K before changing over to synthetic is not at all a crock. Modern engine cylinder bores are oftentimes made of much harder materials than they were in the past. It takes a correspondingly longer time for them to wear in. Changing to synthetic before those parts have fully bedded in can effectively cause them to never wear in, with concomitant loss of power, burning of oil, etc. Where that wear-in point is on a HCHII I don't know. I've not heard anecdotal evidence of problems from those who have changed over to synthetic at relatively early intervals, which would indicate that it wears in fairly quickly. But then again, that's a very small sample universe. I won't personally be in a great hurry to make the switch.

To provide some contextual background: my BMW motorcycle engines, with Nikasill cylinder wall plating, generally require 15-20K miles before they are considered broken in.

 

The manual lists 3 things which should be done to break in the car:
(1) Avoid hard accelerations for the first 600 miles.
(2) Avoid hard braking for the first 600 miles.
(3) Do not change the oil before the first service is indicated by the maintenance minder.

That being said, I am going to follow the factory recommended service and let the car tell me when it is ready for an oil change. I have found no evidence to suggest that frequent oil changes benefit modern engines; rather, it just creates more waste oil, which has to be disposed of, and financially supports service departments at dealerships.

However, everyone has the right to service their car as they see fit.

 

Regaj... I'm only at 8,500, but I'm going to do my first change with synthetic this weekend. I'm reasonably confident that most of the "break in" has completed. My mileage has stabilized at 52 to 54 mpg on recent tanks and I can't imagine it getting any better!