Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,952
From: Grand Forks B.C.
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I live in mountain country and quite often run the SOC down to 1 bar left. At this point there is no assist and that little 90 hp ICE keeps right on pulling without dropping in speed. The RPM is up around 5000+ but the ICE pulls strong! I am not sure why it is so gutless when the IMA goes funny? I can get by without any assist and not complain about the power!Strang!!! H
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 195
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I have had this problem in my 2006 HCHII from time to time. I have done 2 things that have more or less resolved this issue for me.
First, I try to lay off the Assist. I find that I can completely not use it once the car is at 25mph. I use slow, smooth acceleration. I try to use at least 2 to 3 bars, but sometimes 4 cannot be helped.
Second, I recharge the battery every chance I get. If I'm going down a hill, I allow 1 or 2 bars of recharge bars to show. This has been the key to keeping the battery state of charge up. I try not to rely so much on the battery pips as they are not an exact representation of the battery's state of charge (as stated in the manual). I have been able to keep the pips at 6 or 7 regularly.
I used to coast as much as possible with no recharging and did not use my brakes often at all. This would cause the battery to drain and re-calibrate, causing my mpg to drop and the car to run on the engine alone. When this happens, I stay in the right lane (I drive only in the right lane anyway) and let it do it's thing. Between 5-10 mins later it' s back to normal.
You have to recharge your battery whenever you can, not just when braking to a stop, but even when your coasting. The car seems to suck more energy from the battery, more so than it recharges back into it. You have to look for those opportunities to recharge it.
Try it for a week or so and see if there is a difference.
BTW, I've had my car for 2 years with approx 28500 miles on it. My lifetime average mpg is 54.9 over 52 tanks. My last 6 tanks have been in the low 60's mpg. I have a 30 mile round trip suburban commute which I regularly get 65 mpg.
I live in Charlotte, NC and the summers can get a little toasty with mid to upper 90's w/ 100% humidity. If I use the A/C, I use the Auto A/C set at 78-79. It seems to have less drain on the battery than regular A/C.
Good Luck.
First, I try to lay off the Assist. I find that I can completely not use it once the car is at 25mph. I use slow, smooth acceleration. I try to use at least 2 to 3 bars, but sometimes 4 cannot be helped.
Second, I recharge the battery every chance I get. If I'm going down a hill, I allow 1 or 2 bars of recharge bars to show. This has been the key to keeping the battery state of charge up. I try not to rely so much on the battery pips as they are not an exact representation of the battery's state of charge (as stated in the manual). I have been able to keep the pips at 6 or 7 regularly.
I used to coast as much as possible with no recharging and did not use my brakes often at all. This would cause the battery to drain and re-calibrate, causing my mpg to drop and the car to run on the engine alone. When this happens, I stay in the right lane (I drive only in the right lane anyway) and let it do it's thing. Between 5-10 mins later it' s back to normal.
You have to recharge your battery whenever you can, not just when braking to a stop, but even when your coasting. The car seems to suck more energy from the battery, more so than it recharges back into it. You have to look for those opportunities to recharge it.
Try it for a week or so and see if there is a difference.
BTW, I've had my car for 2 years with approx 28500 miles on it. My lifetime average mpg is 54.9 over 52 tanks. My last 6 tanks have been in the low 60's mpg. I have a 30 mile round trip suburban commute which I regularly get 65 mpg.
I live in Charlotte, NC and the summers can get a little toasty with mid to upper 90's w/ 100% humidity. If I use the A/C, I use the Auto A/C set at 78-79. It seems to have less drain on the battery than regular A/C.
Good Luck.
Thread Starter
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Active Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 248
From: Indianapolis
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I still struggle with the idea that this is normal operation. Clearly, the system IS supposed to fail in this way to protect the battery under and overheating condition. This is normal. However, the discrepancy here seems to be the exact limits the car should be able to handle before getting into this failsafe condition. I can promise you that I have driven mine in 95F weather, sun-soaked, A/C cranking, with driver and 3 adult passengers and never seen this behavior. Am I just lucky?
Just off the top of my head:
- How are you certain that the A/C is fine? Just because it blows cold air when cruising doesn't mean that it's 100% fine. Maybe it only has half a charge in it, and can only cool adequately when driving (lots of airflow through the condensor to compensate for the fact that it's grossly over- or under-charged). If incorrectly charged, when idling, the A/C will turn to crap and then let the IMA overheat. They can pull the charge, confirm the charge amount, then re-charge it within about 20 minutes. Have they done so?
I know its fine because the only time it doesnt work fine is when the IMA shuts down.
- There is airflow through the battery vent blower, but how do you know it's enough? Maybe the motor is only flowing half the air it should. Have you compared the airflow to another HCH2 side by side? The blower motor could be defective.
Unfortunately I dont have another civic that i can pull the trunk liner out of and see whats going on there, but if mine was moving more air it would be making noise through the vent tube, there is quite a bit of air flow.
- The exhauster vent that allows the battery cooling air out of the trunk may be clogged. Has anyone confirmed if there are any leaves or spiders nested in there? Have you put any huge trunk liner in place that might block normal flow?
The vent exhausts through the trunk to the outside of the car. I have pulled the panels and nothing is clogged there.
- The temp sensor for the IMA might be slightly out of spec, or at the very limit of it's allowed tolerance. Sensors are analog devices that have a tolerance. Maybe yours is just at the limit, making the IMA system think it's overheating too early. Has the dealer checked the sensor itself? (note: I have no idea if it's possible to check the sensor directly, or if it's internal and not serviceable)
there is no procedure to validate a temp sensor on the pack according to the technical service manual for the car. The battery pack and IMA components are either working or not. there is no procedure for services anything lower than a subassembly and definatly not a temp sensor.
I sympathize with your situation. The fact that dealers usually just pull codes, shrug their shoulders, then spout the Regional Rep's company line just pisses me off. Personally, I don't think your car is operating normally just because they produced some document that claims it to be so. Most of us have no issue at all in the exact same conditions. You need a dealer or Honda engineer that's willing to work harder to diagnose the issue.
Just off the top of my head:
- How are you certain that the A/C is fine? Just because it blows cold air when cruising doesn't mean that it's 100% fine. Maybe it only has half a charge in it, and can only cool adequately when driving (lots of airflow through the condensor to compensate for the fact that it's grossly over- or under-charged). If incorrectly charged, when idling, the A/C will turn to crap and then let the IMA overheat. They can pull the charge, confirm the charge amount, then re-charge it within about 20 minutes. Have they done so?
I know its fine because the only time it doesnt work fine is when the IMA shuts down.
- There is airflow through the battery vent blower, but how do you know it's enough? Maybe the motor is only flowing half the air it should. Have you compared the airflow to another HCH2 side by side? The blower motor could be defective.
Unfortunately I dont have another civic that i can pull the trunk liner out of and see whats going on there, but if mine was moving more air it would be making noise through the vent tube, there is quite a bit of air flow.
- The exhauster vent that allows the battery cooling air out of the trunk may be clogged. Has anyone confirmed if there are any leaves or spiders nested in there? Have you put any huge trunk liner in place that might block normal flow?
The vent exhausts through the trunk to the outside of the car. I have pulled the panels and nothing is clogged there.
- The temp sensor for the IMA might be slightly out of spec, or at the very limit of it's allowed tolerance. Sensors are analog devices that have a tolerance. Maybe yours is just at the limit, making the IMA system think it's overheating too early. Has the dealer checked the sensor itself? (note: I have no idea if it's possible to check the sensor directly, or if it's internal and not serviceable)
there is no procedure to validate a temp sensor on the pack according to the technical service manual for the car. The battery pack and IMA components are either working or not. there is no procedure for services anything lower than a subassembly and definatly not a temp sensor.
I sympathize with your situation. The fact that dealers usually just pull codes, shrug their shoulders, then spout the Regional Rep's company line just pisses me off. Personally, I don't think your car is operating normally just because they produced some document that claims it to be so. Most of us have no issue at all in the exact same conditions. You need a dealer or Honda engineer that's willing to work harder to diagnose the issue.
I have not met anyone in my exact condition that doesnt have a problem. The 2 people I have talked to that drive thier civics in this heat with passengers and AC both have this issue.
If you drive in 95 degree heat with 4 adults in your car with the AC running after the car has been parked in the sun during the heat of the day and you dont have these problems please let me know. Now I have to say these arent the only conditions this happens to be, but during the above described situation the car will definatly not work.
Thread Starter
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Active Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 248
From: Indianapolis
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I have had this problem in my 2006 HCHII from time to time. I have done 2 things that have more or less resolved this issue for me.
First, I try to lay off the Assist. I find that I can completely not use it once the car is at 25mph. I use slow, smooth acceleration. I try to use at least 2 to 3 bars, but sometimes 4 cannot be helped.
Do you think its acceptable to have to significantly alter how you use your vehicle just to make it work properly? That being said, even this doesn't help my situation.
Second, I recharge the battery every chance I get. If I'm going down a hill, I allow 1 or 2 bars of recharge bars to show. This has been the key to keeping the battery state of charge up. I try not to rely so much on the battery pips as they are not an exact representation of the battery's state of charge (as stated in the manual). I have been able to keep the pips at 6 or 7 regularly.
I have had my SoC go from full to 0 Bars in about 4 seconds, the SoC being high doesnt keep the IMA system from overheating and shutting off. That being said, I cannot keep my SoC over half in city driving no matter what i do.
I used to coast as much as possible with no recharging and did not use my brakes often at all. This would cause the battery to drain and re-calibrate, causing my mpg to drop and the car to run on the engine alone. When this happens, I stay in the right lane (I drive only in the right lane anyway) and let it do it's thing. Between 5-10 mins later it' s back to normal.
so imagine this loss of power just as you pull in front of a truck, how do you deal with that?
You have to recharge your battery whenever you can, not just when braking to a stop, but even when your coasting. The car seems to suck more energy from the battery, more so than it recharges back into it. You have to look for those opportunities to recharge it.
I shouldnt have to dedicate any extra attention to maintaining my IMA system just to keep it working. But even if i pay very close attention nothing will keep it from shutting down.
Try it for a week or so and see if there is a difference.
BTW, I've had my car for 2 years with approx 28500 miles on it. My lifetime average mpg is 54.9 over 52 tanks. My last 6 tanks have been in the low 60's mpg. I have a 30 mile round trip suburban commute which I regularly get 65 mpg.
I live in Charlotte, NC and the summers can get a little toasty with mid to upper 90's w/ 100% humidity. If I use the A/C, I use the Auto A/C set at 78-79. It seems to have less drain on the battery than regular A/C.
I have had my car for 2 years with 50k on it and my tanks are in the low 30mpgs now. I used to get 47 consistantly. Not using the AC is not an option when its 95-110 degrees outside. I didnt but a 25,000 dollar car just to have to worry about the AC not being usable when its hot out. I have tried Auto climate control with no change in results.
Good Luck.
Thanks, I am pretty sure i am either going to have to sue honda or trade this car in. I dont have the time or patiences to help honda make thier car work.
First, I try to lay off the Assist. I find that I can completely not use it once the car is at 25mph. I use slow, smooth acceleration. I try to use at least 2 to 3 bars, but sometimes 4 cannot be helped.
Do you think its acceptable to have to significantly alter how you use your vehicle just to make it work properly? That being said, even this doesn't help my situation.
Second, I recharge the battery every chance I get. If I'm going down a hill, I allow 1 or 2 bars of recharge bars to show. This has been the key to keeping the battery state of charge up. I try not to rely so much on the battery pips as they are not an exact representation of the battery's state of charge (as stated in the manual). I have been able to keep the pips at 6 or 7 regularly.
I have had my SoC go from full to 0 Bars in about 4 seconds, the SoC being high doesnt keep the IMA system from overheating and shutting off. That being said, I cannot keep my SoC over half in city driving no matter what i do.
I used to coast as much as possible with no recharging and did not use my brakes often at all. This would cause the battery to drain and re-calibrate, causing my mpg to drop and the car to run on the engine alone. When this happens, I stay in the right lane (I drive only in the right lane anyway) and let it do it's thing. Between 5-10 mins later it' s back to normal.
so imagine this loss of power just as you pull in front of a truck, how do you deal with that?
You have to recharge your battery whenever you can, not just when braking to a stop, but even when your coasting. The car seems to suck more energy from the battery, more so than it recharges back into it. You have to look for those opportunities to recharge it.
I shouldnt have to dedicate any extra attention to maintaining my IMA system just to keep it working. But even if i pay very close attention nothing will keep it from shutting down.
Try it for a week or so and see if there is a difference.
BTW, I've had my car for 2 years with approx 28500 miles on it. My lifetime average mpg is 54.9 over 52 tanks. My last 6 tanks have been in the low 60's mpg. I have a 30 mile round trip suburban commute which I regularly get 65 mpg.
I live in Charlotte, NC and the summers can get a little toasty with mid to upper 90's w/ 100% humidity. If I use the A/C, I use the Auto A/C set at 78-79. It seems to have less drain on the battery than regular A/C.
I have had my car for 2 years with 50k on it and my tanks are in the low 30mpgs now. I used to get 47 consistantly. Not using the AC is not an option when its 95-110 degrees outside. I didnt but a 25,000 dollar car just to have to worry about the AC not being usable when its hot out. I have tried Auto climate control with no change in results.
Good Luck.
Thanks, I am pretty sure i am either going to have to sue honda or trade this car in. I dont have the time or patiences to help honda make thier car work.
Thread Starter
|
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 248
From: Indianapolis
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I live in mountain country and quite often run the SOC down to 1 bar left. At this point there is no assist and that little 90 hp ICE keeps right on pulling without dropping in speed. The RPM is up around 5000+ but the ICE pulls strong! I am not sure why it is so gutless when the IMA goes funny? I can get by without any assist and not complain about the power!Strang!!! H
Thread Starter
|
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 248
From: Indianapolis
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
OK so i went to the only other honda dealer in my town.
I arrived early and explained everything as they entered it in the computer. Now I have to mention that before I showed up i had informed them I needed a loaner for the day or a ride to my work. After they filled it all out they asked me if i needed a ride. I said yes I do, which was indicated on the form i filled out for you. They asked where to. I replied near the airport, which was also on my form. They said ohhhh well we dont go that far. I said oh thats interesting it took me over an hour to drive here and I informed you guys before I came of my specific situation. The guy who drives people around just sat there reading his news paper with a smug look on his face. I asked them what my options were as my warranty covers a loaner or rental. They said they can only authorize that if there is a warranty claim. So i asked them again what my options where. They said that i could either wait in the waiting room for 5 or 6 hours or take the car back. Since I had to be at work i just took the car back.
This dealer is like all the others inattentave, lazy and ignorant.
the tech who was going to look at the car came up and read the complaints on the file and asked who changed my oil last. I told him I did, why. He was like oh yea did you use 5w motor oil? I said no I only use Amsoil 0w20. he was like oh thats good. I was like why would I put 5w in it when it says right on the cap not to? He was like well it could explain your MPG loss, I said, there is no way even if i had put 5w in there that i would see a nearly 30 percent drop in fuel economy. He then left.
I was given my keys and asked when i could come back to reschedule. I said when did he think i could get a ride to my work while i wait or a loaner or rental car. He said they would be unable to provide that. I dont have any options then.
So i have attempted to get a 2nd opinion, but the dealer is unwilling to figure out any way to make it work.
does anyone have suggestions for a replacement vehicle? something not made by honda. Probably a toyota or nissan.
I arrived early and explained everything as they entered it in the computer. Now I have to mention that before I showed up i had informed them I needed a loaner for the day or a ride to my work. After they filled it all out they asked me if i needed a ride. I said yes I do, which was indicated on the form i filled out for you. They asked where to. I replied near the airport, which was also on my form. They said ohhhh well we dont go that far. I said oh thats interesting it took me over an hour to drive here and I informed you guys before I came of my specific situation. The guy who drives people around just sat there reading his news paper with a smug look on his face. I asked them what my options were as my warranty covers a loaner or rental. They said they can only authorize that if there is a warranty claim. So i asked them again what my options where. They said that i could either wait in the waiting room for 5 or 6 hours or take the car back. Since I had to be at work i just took the car back.
This dealer is like all the others inattentave, lazy and ignorant.
the tech who was going to look at the car came up and read the complaints on the file and asked who changed my oil last. I told him I did, why. He was like oh yea did you use 5w motor oil? I said no I only use Amsoil 0w20. he was like oh thats good. I was like why would I put 5w in it when it says right on the cap not to? He was like well it could explain your MPG loss, I said, there is no way even if i had put 5w in there that i would see a nearly 30 percent drop in fuel economy. He then left.
I was given my keys and asked when i could come back to reschedule. I said when did he think i could get a ride to my work while i wait or a loaner or rental car. He said they would be unable to provide that. I dont have any options then.
So i have attempted to get a 2nd opinion, but the dealer is unwilling to figure out any way to make it work.
does anyone have suggestions for a replacement vehicle? something not made by honda. Probably a toyota or nissan.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,952
From: Grand Forks B.C.
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I wonder why the ICE performance is being effected by the IMA system. I have heard of others complain of this power lose! Wierd!!! H
Active Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 195
Re: Dealer told me they dont know how to fix it!
I wonder if it's because the car is recharging the whole time? It's like, not only are you working with a 90hp engine alone, but the car is "dragging it's feet" the whole time, recharging the battery.
It appears that not only is there something definitely wrong w/ the car, but there is something definitely wrong with your dealership. I wouldn't hesitate taking it to another one.
I'm so sorry for your situation twuelfing. Again, good luck.
It appears that not only is there something definitely wrong w/ the car, but there is something definitely wrong with your dealership. I wouldn't hesitate taking it to another one.
I'm so sorry for your situation twuelfing. Again, good luck.
