I know this post is lengthy, but it's full of a lot of details so bear with me. I have a few issues with my 2007 HCHII with 92k miles on it. I bought the car in April 2007 in California so I got the 10/120,000 warranty on the IMA and CVT. I'm now in Florida for the last 2 years and 65k miles. I've been on and off GreenHybrid for the last 3.5 years and I've never had anything bad to say about the car. I really have had no problems except for occasional recals... until i hit 90k and was about to do the June updates (and all the past updates that I've never had done) in Sept. Even now with these problems, I still enjoy my HCHII, I just want her fixed up right!

It was a Friday, I just left work at 4pm. I'm on rural streets that lead to the highway. When coming to a stoplight, the IMA and Check Engine lights came on. The car continued to run fine (no AS), but i was quite worried cause all i've read are bad things about the IMA light coming on. I get on the phone to the dealership and explained that I was going to bring in the car for the update notification i received in the mail, but I just had the IMA and Check Engine lights come on. They said they couldn't get me in on Saturday, but to bring it in first thing Monday.

So I drive it a total of about 50 miles (30 of it was the rest of the trip home on Friday) over the weekend on an as needed basis. On Saturday, the IMA light goes away as if there is nothing wrong. On Sunday night when I start the car to take a trip to the ER (about 2 miles away) for my girlfriend's son, the check engine light is no longer on either. When I get out on the street however, the power steering light comes on and I lose the PS. I pull over, turn off the car for 30 seconds, start it up again, and the PS light is now off.

7am Monday morning, I'm at the dealership. At this point there are no idiot lights on except the DRL light which has been on for the last 50k miles because I have a DRL light out, but the brights still worked so i didn't bother replacing the bulb. I explain what happened and the course of events from Friday till Monday to the service rep along with the more frequent recals. He took notes, said he would have them do the updates and check for any problems with the idiot lights that were no longer on.

He had me sign something which I didn't realize, but it was a $90 diagnostic fee if they couldn't find anything covered under warranty with the diagnostics (the software upgrades were free). Anyway, they drop me off at home and have my car till about 2pm and called me saying the tech worked on my car just about the whole time. He said when they hooked the computer up to the diag machine, it showed no error codes except the DRL light (and proceeded to explain what it was at which point I said don't bother i know what it is). He said he could replace the bulbs for a total of $25.00. I confirmed with him that that is ALL it was going to cost and he said yes. Since 1 of them is in a bad spot with the 12V battery, I said go ahead and replace them.

So as for the rest of the problems, he said there were NO ERROR CODES in the computer of any recent problems. I argued with him for 30 minutes saying "How can a computer not remember a major error code that happened less than 72 hours ago?" He had no answer, and also said the tech could not replicate the recal all day. So what do they do? They charge me $90 because there was nothing wrong! I was pissed and argued for another 30 minutes that the car has a problem and it's not my fault their on-board computer can't remember a **** thing! I continued to state that there IS something wrong. He could only say that if it happens again like this he wouldn't charge me another diagnostic fee next time.

Very upset, I paid him, got the car pulled up, got in the vehicle, drove to the end of the driveway to get on the main road, and sure enough a recal happened right then! I was so upset I wasn't going to turn around and continue to argue with them at that time as they would probably just say "it's the updates and they reset the computer" or something like that. I started keeping a log, and i will soon start a video record so there is no argument with it being right on video!

So, after this long-winded explanation, has anyone else's diagnostic "forgot" it's problems so conveniently when going to get an idiot light serviced? I find it VERY hard to believe with the computer systems these vehicles have that the memory would be wiped!

I have noticed as well the battery is not holding a charge if the vehicle is turned off for more than an hour or two... Again, it seems like another memory storage issue. Every morning and every afternoon when I leave for work and head home from work, I have a guaranteed recal even if I turned off the car with 8 bars on the SoC. And that's another thing, I've NEVER had 8 bars on the SoC before the updates unless i was going downhill for a good two minutes at full charging state! Now, after the recal starts everytime I get in the car, I go from 5-8 bars down to 1 with forced regen and no AS. After less than 2 miles down the road heading to the highway entrance, the SoC gets up to 4 bars then immediately jumps to 8 bars as if the battery is fully charged! It really pisses me off everytime I see it because I know its bogus that the system has charged the battery completely in 2 miles on ciy streets. So basically, the 2 miles I NEED autostop, I don't have it (and it has nothing to do with warm-up time). I'm then on the highway for 30 miles and I get AS for the 4 lights to my work. I get out of the car with 5-8 bars on the SoC, and 6-8 hours later I head home (or 4 hours later head to lunch) and within 1/2 mile I drop to 1 bar on the SoC and have no AS for the first 3 lights back to the highway! Sometimes I go to start the car as normal, but it doesn't start right away and when I go to turn the key again, it sounds like the engine is turning over like a normal car instead of the quiet/smooth start, and notice the SoC bars already down to 1!

I'm getting 44-46mpg even with all these problems and I'm not heavy on the accelerator and don't bring the tachometer over 2200 RPM to accelerate. I know my car, and she's sick! I drive 100 miles a day and I'm coming up fast on the 120k warranty, so I hope I can get Honda to replace the battery pack before then! Any similar stories and suggestions are much appreciated! The only positive I notice from the updates is the "clunk/jolt" CVT engaging when coming out of AutoStop is much smoother.

 

Angelo,

Sorry to hear that you're having difficulties. Has the 12V battery been replaced or is it the original? Sometimes a marginal 12V will cause some unusual symptoms with the IMA system. If it is the original, you may wish to consider replacing the 12V battery to help rule out that variable.

Good luck,
Lurch

 

AJR, I haven't experienced the disappearing codes - I find it incredibly hard to believe they disappeared. You could get your own OBD-II scanner and capture them yourself (i have a ScanGauge II that does this an lots of other useful things for any car).

As far as the recals, Ugh! There's so much discussion going on about this. You'll find a couple of threads here about it. You can read about the LA Times article about it here: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...honda-20100815.

Hope that helps.

-dan

 

After the update, my mpg dropped. I still get decent mpg on the highway, but no longer get 50 like I would get sometimes. I suppose that is because the hybrid system is not used as much on the highway.

In the city, its total crap now. I get twenties and thirties.

I have to say I'm very disappointed, even though I'm a longtime Honda fan. The LA Times article is quite right when it says the government is looking at the following issues:

a) this high level of battery failure deserves a recall
b) the firmware update changes the smog and epa mpg profile

 

Only one big prob with the LA times article. what do you say to those getting better mpg after the update?
we need more information before hanging honda on this one cause I am one of those seeing better mpg and others are seeing slow improvements after the update. just too early to tell.

ks

 

How long has it been since you got the update? Also, did they update a lot of stuff, or just apply the update mentioned in the recall notice?

 

Been about a month since I got mine. The dealer applied the recall notice with the same softwares announced by the guys at cleanmpg in June.

ks

 

We've had the update for about a month, and notice the same behaviour. I've been thinking about just what the recal is doing. My take:

The computer has an anticipation of what a strong charging sesssion should accomplish. It runs the recal behaviours, and directly monitors the resultant state-of-charge. Using the State Of Charge of a brand-new, on-spec battery as a point of reference, it get the SOC up to 4~5 bars. It continues charging, but gets no further improvement.

After some time interval of no improvement it gives up and bumps the diplayed SOC to "full".

In other words, if you experience a recal and see the SOC rise to and then stagnate at 5 bars, and after a further interval magically jump to full, just maybe your battery condition is 50% of what it was when new.

Some caveats: "full" never was full, and zero bars never was dead, they're maybe 80% and 20% respectively: there was some leeway at both ends of the scale.

My hunch that "full" isn't what it used to be is reinforced by the car's behavior subsequent to the recall: that "full" seems to evaporate very quickly: one-or-two moderately assisted accelerations and the state of charge drops from full back to 5~4 bars...

 

I have a Civic 06 with 60K and the IMA battery began frequently discharging last June before I got the software update. I got the software update and the at least once a daily discharges continued. After the software upgrade, I also had the same behavior of the IMA battery dropping to 1-2 bars, engine charging the battery, and the battery level zooming to 8 bars. This never happened before the upgrade. The other troubling aspect of the software upgrade is the acceleration has become more unpredictable. In the range of 2-4 bars of battery level, I may have no electric assistance or a lot but I never know how much. I have not had any lights come on.

I've taken it twice to the dealer and they have said it is working normally. I have now submitted photos showing the frequent discharges and I am waiting their response.

My conclusion is the software upgrade has shown that the Civic hybrid is a flawed design with a very small gas engine that can't work safely on its own combined with limited battery capacity and electrical power that is not sufficient or consistent on a long term basis or in some driving conditions. The IMA batteries are deteriorating in some of our Civics which is compounding the problem. The software upgrade is making performance and safety worse and more erractic at least for Civics that have IMA batteries that are deteriorating. And Honda is saying our cars are working fine.

 

Kevin- what climate are you in? I believe this firmware update limits the temperature at which the battery will be used. So if you're in a "sun belt" state (CA, NV, UT, AZ, NM, TX), and it's summer... Bad News.

Now that summer is over, the recals have become less frequent. But still happens. This morning, 62 degrees, no A/C of course. Got the all too common recal.