I have a 2004 Civic Hybrid (manual transmission) with 66,000 miles and a failing IMA system as diagnosed by my local Honda dealership. They report that it's throwing the codes P1435 and P1570 and that they would need to first replace the Motor Control Module (MCM) for around $3000 to even be able to determine if the the battery pack is also in need of replacement (about another $3000), which they indicate is likely.

I've exhausted all of my options when it comes to having the batteries replaced under Honda's extended warranty and can't justify spending that much money on the car.

The car is still at the dealer but I've reached out to a local hybrid repair shop, Mile Hybrid Automotive http://www.milehybridauto.com/ and explained the situation and they claim that for the same repairs they would charge about $300 for the MCM and about $1800 for brand new batteries but would obviously want to see the car themselves to be sure - their diagnosis fee is about $120, which they would apply towards any repairs.

I'm also overdue for my Colorado emissions test and the car would certainly fail as the CEL and IMA lights are both on.

Has anyone else had both of these codes and if so what work was needed to clear them?

I've that others have been able to continue to drive with a failed IMA system, which I would be comfortable to do if I didn't need to have the emissions test. That said, are there any less-expensive options that might clear those trouble codes and let me eke out a little but more life from this car?

I'm going to try "Battery not charging? Easy way to reset IMA control modules " https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...modules-30339/ as soon as I get the car from the dealer but am not holding my breath.

Finally, Mile Hybrid has expressed an interest in buying this broken Civic thanks to both it's low mileage and manual transmission. If you were in my shoes and didn't necessarily need this car anyway (it's one of two in our household) would you just sell it and be done with it? If so, what's a reasonable price for a 2004 Civic with ~66K miles and a body in fair condition?

 

An update: I picked up the Civic from the dealer and though the CEL was on, neither the IMA light nor the low battery light (which had also been illuminating at low RPMs) were on and the IMA appeared to be doing a forced recharge. I was surprised because prior to going to the dealer I had been getting no charge/assist activity from the IMA system.

While the car was at the dealer (for the airbag recall) it was also reprogrammed with the latest software, which I'm wondering is why the IMA system might be working again, despite the fact that the dealer told me the MCM was shot hence the IMA system not working.

That said, the IMA system system seemed to function normally for my 20 mile drive back home but the CEL remained on. I stopped at an AutoZone to have the codes read and they are: P1435, P1570, P1600, and P1601.

Any ideas about what might be going on and if I'm likely to see the IMA system fail? Now that it does appear to be working is there anything I can do to try to keep it alive, like go for a long drive, let it idle to charge, etc? Does it sound like my batteries might be a good candidate for a deep discharge/grid charge?

 

Your pack is likely crapping out, and that's all. A failing pack can cause all sorts of codes in IMA related systems.

I recommend you build a DIY grid charger and charge the battery for 24 hours. Link in my sig.

Once you top the pack off and know it is balanced, diagnosis of any other problems will be more straight-forward. This isn't a guaranteed fix, and duration of improvement between grid charges (and discharges if you go that way), will decrease. People have extended the lives of their packs for 1-2 years - enough time for them to sock away a bit extra to get a new pack.

If this works, you may want to invest in a grid charger from hybrid automotive as they up the convenience factor. You don't have to pull the pack from the car as they can run the PWM fan motor. You can't just drive it with 12V.

Good luck,

Steve

 

Thanks, I heard good things about Mile Hybrid Auto here in Denver http://www.milehybridauto.com/ and took the car there this morning for diagnosis. Tthey confirmed the codes were all related to a failing pack and that the MCM was just fine. I ended up swapping the pack out for one of their own (built with brand new cells) for $2400 and so far everything looks great!

 

Not bad if that's out the door, it's built exclusively with new sticks, and it has a 3 year warranty.

Hybrid ReVolt and Bumblebee have been supplying new packs for a long time. Both are priced lower than that, but you have to install yourself.

Glad to hear you're back on the road. Kudos to you for making the investment in an 11 year old car! many would chuck it.

Steve

 

I mis-quoted, it was $2600 with new sticks and a 3-year transferable warranty. I figured it was fair given that I likely wouldn't have tried the swap myself. After thinking about the low mileage and the fact that I haven't put a dime into it with regards to repairs, it seemed like $2600 wasn't bad overall and it didn't make sense not to fix it. Hopefully my gamble pays off.

I had IMA issues on and off for a couple of years now but didn't know Honda extended their original warranty and avoided having it checked due to cost. When I tried calling this time they said it was just too far past the time-frame to do anything so this is a $2600 lesson on my part to stop procrastinating.

 

Swap isn't hard, but there's an appeal to "turnkey."

You're not in a SULEV state, so your warranty would be 9 years/96,600 miles. The good news is that Honda replacement packs are notoriously unreliable and the aftermarkets tend to be superior. If you got one replaced a couple years ago under warranty, 2-3 years is all you can expect, so you'd probably be looking at buying one about now anyway.

There is an Insight that has had its battery replaced 4 times under warranty.

 

Steve, thanks again for all your advice.

I have one last question: When Mile Hybrid diagnosed and replaced the battery pack they also found two Honda-specific codes that AutoZone didn't with their scanner. The codes are 61-1 Battery voltage failure and 23-1 A problem with the engine speed circuit. The tech said that 61-1 was definitely related to the bad pack but he wasn't sure if 23-1 was related or just indication that a speed sensor was indeed failing. Do you (or anyone else) know if 23-1 is usually related to a bad pack (and codes P1435, P1570, P1600, and/or P1601?

Just curious if anyone else had run across these Honda-specific codes, thanks!

 

IMHO, false codes.

When "honda specific" codes don't appear in the Honda service manual, they are likely bad translations or "false-positives" on a non-Honda diagnostic system, which are more likely to occur when you are getting multiple codes.

One time on my HCH2, I had pack codes, misfire codes and cat codes... and about 4 completely WTF? codes. With the pack swapped, the plugs and a coil replaced, all that remains is the cat code, and it's intermittent. WTF? codes never came back.

If your CEL is off, don't sweat it.

I heartily recommend a bluetooth OBD-II reader ($10) and Torque Pro ($6) for Android. Diagnostic and real-time monitoring second to none. If you're an iPhone guy:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...tml#post258016

Good luck,

Steve

 

Thanks again. And I meant to ask which reader you use...is it the one mentioned in that thread?
Edit: I did find this list of confirmed readers but it looks like folks have good luck with many (less expensive) others, too. http://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Bluetooth_Adapters