Hello good people,

I am a 60 yo F with a 2004 HCH, 95487 miles. Here's some history to my problem: the car began to lose power, very slightly, last year. This spring, I lost the AC unit and/or the blower (couldn't tell which). Then I went out of town for 10 days, and the IMA light came on when I picked up the car at the airport. I had the codes read, don't remember specifically, maybe 1600? and something else, but I do remember that both indicated the IMA battery needed to be replaced. I flipped out, then read threads on this fabulous forum, disconnected the battery, and everything was fine until now. Both lights came back on two days ago (about 2 months between incidents).

I recently lost my job, so I am using the car much less than usual. Car is parked in the FL sunshine most of the day (i.e. very hot). I did some more research, but since I am currently low on funds (and frantically searching for a job) I decided to disconnect the battery again and see if it would work again. It did, but this time for only about a day and a half. Both lights are back on. Have not had the codes read yet, but I'm sure we can all guess what they will be. Power is noticeably reduced. IMA batteries read fully charged. Car is still re-charging and assisting, per the idiot lights.

I really need some straight talk here. Many of the other threads on this subject become technical, or they don't apply to my car, or they become a debate, and I can't follow them. I have some questions and also maybe you-all can think of some answers to questions I don't even know I should ask (if that makes sense). I really need some guidance here, b/c I am dealing with so many other issues in my life, this feels like the straw that may break the camel's back.

So: am I under warranty or not? Can I drive with the light on for a while (and the car at low power) without risking being stuck on the highway somewhere? How much time do I have and will I be able to tell when I absolutely have to take action? What else do I need to consider? Should I just take it in and get the pack replaced now? (this is an option only if they are under warranty, b/c I have no money right now).

I am so upset, I can't think of any other questions right now, but I may have more later. I thank you in advance for all your help!

Signe in FL

 

Can you tell us exactly what the codes are? This will indicate if it's the battery or the controller causing the issue. Have you spoken to your local Honda dealer?

 

A quick search 2004 Civic Hybrid warranty yields the following:

It looks like you are about 15,000 miles over. I assume you have the CVT transmission as you state the car seems underpowered now? I have a 2003 HCH with the 5 speed and my lights have been on for about 70,000 miles but I can still drive it because if the assist drops out and I need power I can just downshift..

Maybe the dealer will work with you to replace the IMA battery as you aren't that far out of warranty...

 

Thank you for responding! I'll get codes tomorrow and call my local Honda dealer and let you know the outcome.

:-)

 

Hello! Got the codes read: 1600 and 1433 (big surprise :-)

AND I talked to Honda, it was interesting: they looked up my car info based on my VIN number. Told me that I still qualified for the warranty replacement b/c of the delivery date of the car (under 8 years). He asked for mileage also, but he didn't say that the mileage disqualified me.

But then he said there were two updates available for my car: one for the IMA batteries and one for the cat. I told him that I thought the software update was for newer models only, but he said no, it (his computer) showed that they apply to my 2004 as well.

I told him that I knew there was some dissatisfaction with the IMA software updates, as it (apparently) reduces the mileage (per owner/user comments in this forum as well as others). He said that he had heard the same thing. But I also told him that I didn't really care, as long as it meant that I can keep my batteries for another 100k miles (I drove my previous Civic for >200K miles, I'd like to do the same with this one).

So, new questions: are they avoiding replacing the batteries with the update? Does anybody really know the preferable way to go? Will the update extend the life of my batteries? And, most importantly, will the software update invalidate the warranty (assuming it still applies to my car, which apparently it does)...?

Finally, do I *have* to accept the update vs the replacement...? This should be my choice, correct? Not Honda's?

@mrkcohen and gethin: thank you for your responses. You are a light in the wilderness right now :-)

 

Signe,

Have the updates done. The updates for a 2004 model are not the same as what you've been reading regarding the second-generation HCH, which some people are having problems with. The updates here are specific to the first-generation HCH, and I think you should have them done. If the problem still remains afterward, at least they've ruled out those 2 things being your problem.

The software update does not invalidate the warranty.

There's also a slight extension on the mileage for your warranty, although you still may be over the mileage for certain parts on your car. See this bulletin regarding the mileage extensions:

http://www.skidmore.edu/~pdwyer/e/fi...ns/a06-085.pdf

It sounds like your dealer seems to know about this, and is offering to help you (often known as goodwill consideration). You may get lucky and either the updates will help, or they will be able to reduce the amount any necessary repair might cost you.
I think the catalytic converter has an 8 yr/80,000 warranty on your HCH, a bit longer now on the miles, due to the mileage extension listed above.

PS: make sure they check your 12V battery; sometimes something as simple as that can cause all these problems. If the car is an '04 and still has the original 12V battery, it's probably time to get it replaced.

One last thing. Try not to have the car sit for long periods of time without being used, at least a little bit. I think in your owner's manual it says if the car is not going to be driven for a period of time, you should have someone start it up and let it run for a little bit at least (I forget? ; look it up if you have the manual) once a week. Definitely get that 12V Battery checked though. A dying 12V will only make these matters worse.

 

@Gairwyn, et all:

OK! got the updates done this morning: 1 for the IMA batteries and one for the cat. Lights currently off; we'll see what happens! This time they said that I "might be" over miles if the update doesn't work and if the batteries ultimately need replacing. But they didn't lie and try to tell me that the software update would definitely fix the problem; they said that the update is the fix that is "supposed" to work, and that they weren't sure; they were going by the info from Honda Central Command (or whatever it's called :-).

They also didn't try to guess how many miles it might be before the batteries degrade or the lights come on. They did say that if the batteries have actually degraded, the software wasn't going to fix the problem and they would ultimately have to be replaced.

They also mentioned that the battery pack should never sit idle, so I will be making a point of driving the car daily. I've been getting 43 mpg through all of this; we'll see if that continues.

They also diagnosed my AC problem (power transistor in blower motor) and didn't charge me anything for that, so all in all I feel I received very fair treatment from my dealer. No complaints.

However, I forgot to ask them to check the 12V >hanginghead< but that is easy enough to do somewhere else. I don't know whether their diagnostic would have picked that up or not, so I'll get it done for my own peace of mind.

They did pick up on other things that need to be done, but it will all have to do wait until I get a job...

Thanks for your help and guidance. It may not seem like much, but it's hard to think straight when so much is going on and there are so many variables. This forum is awesome!

Signe

 

Good luck with everything, Signe.

 

Confused, Part Deux!

So the software updates were done, the lights came back on a coule of days later, and I took it back in to the dealer. Long story short: hybrid batteries are failing. $3800 quote but they will do it for $1900. Don't have the money, so I am driving around with the engine check light and the IMA light going on and off at various intervals.

Two questions:

1. I completely forgot to ask them to check the 12v battery (was a little preoccupied...). So I took it to AutoZone; they said it was operating at 68% capacity and I def need a new one. BUT they won't put it a new one in for me! They said they were told not to mess with any batteries on a hybrid for liability issues. I told them that I myself had disconnected the battery a few times and was not worried about it... but then I realized that perhaps I should ask about it here before I change out the battery. I can change it myself - it's just easier to have them do it - but is there anything I need to know before I do? Any tips on battery choices...?

2. The Honda service tech told me something interesting: he said that the car can run even when and if the hybrid batteries die. In fact, he was insistent about it. That runs contrary to what I have learned online, but who is right? I told him that it was my impression that the car does not have an alternator and asked him how it would then charge the 12v? He said he "wasn't certain" but he believes that there is a "component" in the CVT that would charge the 12v. Does he know what he's talking about...?

Curiouser and curiouser... once again, I thank you in advance for any insight you can give me.

Signe

 

I've been driving around with my CEL/IMA lights on for over 70,00 miles now. The IMA system isn't 100%, I often lose assist due to frequent recals and my autostop doesn't work every time, but the car is perfectly drivable and I still get over 50MPG. I should mention I have the 5-speed standard transmission so if I need power I just downshift. I'm not sure how drivable the CVT transmission would be with a weak IMA system.

The Honda service tech you talked to was wrong. The 12V battery isn't charged by the CVT but by a DC-DC converter which is part of the IMA system. Item #1 at the link:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...A+CONTROL+UNIT

It is a separate component from the IMA battery pack itself and it can function with at least a weak (not dead) IMA pack. I am driving proof of this. I have already decided if my DC-DC converter goes and stops charging the 12V that will be the end of the line for my beloved 2003 HCH. You will know this has happened because the little red 12V battery icon will light during operation.

As for 12V batteries there are no special requirements, just look up the part number at any auto parts website by your make and model. The last time I purchased one I went with a Duralast 51R-DLG. If I recall correctly it was under $90. Make sure you check the cables, I live in a high winter salt area and once found my neg cable almost corroded through. I'm surprised autozone wouldn't change the battery, it's the same as any other car. I would check with another store or any repair shop should do it for a 1/2 hours labor tops. And make sure you have your radio security code before disconnecting the battery.

Also, while the $3800 seems high for replacing the IMA battery, the $1900 seem like a steal compared to the $2600 I've been quoted in the past.

Good luck...