Volt battery testing started
#23
Re: Volt battery testing started
Here is the information you requested on the VOLT pricing
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...-toyota-prius/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...-toyota-prius/
There is no statement (from Toyota) on what the plug in version would cost. The authors of this article "guessed" at $30,000 without providing any data on how they arrived at this figure. The Volt has been estimated to be as high as $48,000 purchase price.
Note: there is no mention of close end leasing in this article for either Toyota or GM.
I found the article to be helpful in providing details and facts on what the future may look like.
#24
Re: Volt battery testing started
There's little doubt in my mind that GM is a scumbag company. Last month when hybrid sales where approx 22,000+, GM sold less than 100. Yet they spent countless dollars on "green ads". But I do agree with Billy with regard to myth vs. reality. As much as the practices of GM get my goat, all these conspiracy theories get me just as mad.
Sure I saw "Who killed the electric car", and there is no doubt that something stinks, but lets try and stick with the facts. There are more than enough reasons for someone NOT to buy a vehicle from GM. If they now want to be a player ,the burden is on them to prove it to us, not the other way around.
Sure I saw "Who killed the electric car", and there is no doubt that something stinks, but lets try and stick with the facts. There are more than enough reasons for someone NOT to buy a vehicle from GM. If they now want to be a player ,the burden is on them to prove it to us, not the other way around.
I agree; sticking with facts is important--GM actually sold 577 hybrids last month, not less than 100 (according to GM's Mark LaNeve). Yep, still pretty abysmal, but just want to keep things accurate.
Let's also consider that while GM may not be selling very many hybrids, they aren't making very many either. It's not as if there is a pile of unsold hybrids sitting on GM's lots. The main battery supplier for the BAS vehicles, Cobasys, is in financial turmoil right now and is having trouble supplying the batteries for GM. They also had a bout of problematic batteries that needed to be replaced due to a faulty design, so they had to catch up on replacements first before supplying new units to the manufacturer. I do know, for example, that there is one Saturn VUE Green Line for sale in the entire Chicagoland area, and it's probably gone by now. My local dealer hasn't seen one in several months.
I do agree, though, that the massive ad campaigns seem to greatly exaggerate the amount of hybrids GM actually intends to produce (and sell). In this case, it sure seems image based...
#26
Re: Volt battery testing started
Must I remind you who owns the patent rights for the nickel metal hydride battery- Chevron/Texaco. Although GM owned 61% of
Ovonic Battery Corp., they determined it was in the best interest of US to sell one of the most critically required of an EV – the batteries to BIG OIL. Hmmm, seems like Big Oil to me. Not only do they own exclusive rights to the battery but they made the determination to dismantle and destroy the EV-95 AH battery. Oh and by the way the patents are not expiring until 2015.
Ovonic Battery Corp., they determined it was in the best interest of US to sell one of the most critically required of an EV – the batteries to BIG OIL. Hmmm, seems like Big Oil to me. Not only do they own exclusive rights to the battery but they made the determination to dismantle and destroy the EV-95 AH battery. Oh and by the way the patents are not expiring until 2015.
The JV that you speak of was joined to develop a particular type and chemistry of battery. Advances in battery technology have led GM to move away from that type of battery system to more advanced systems. The JV was no longer necessary and interest in it sold. What does it matter who we sold it to?
GM destroyed all the blueprints for the EV1..
Why don’t we all make a request to Iron Mountain for configuration managed PDM Engineering documents of the real EV1 name- the GM Impact? This is the location that maintains all data center backups of the datasets. Good luck with that one!
Why don’t we all make a request to Iron Mountain for configuration managed PDM Engineering documents of the real EV1 name- the GM Impact? This is the location that maintains all data center backups of the datasets. Good luck with that one!
The Volt lease was confirmed by numerous GM representatives. And, it will be a closed end lease (no option to buy). This is the only way GM can remotely have any luck of being successful with the Volt due to the high cost (which is currently projected at $48,000 and supposedly 2 years away). Oh and by the way, closed end lease means – you will have no legal way to keep the vehicle at the end of the lease, this guarantees GM full control of the fleet. If GM determines they want the Volt vehicles back, you MUST return the car – no questions asked!
Again, O-P-I-N-I-O-N or do you have facts or a statement to back this up? Nevermind.....I know FOR A FACT that you don't.
Let me just point out one fact Billy Boy – let’s not forget taxes which comprise a good bulk of the fuel price consisting of local, state and federal taxes. All GM has to do is lease ONE vehicle to fulfill all of their requirements to delivery a product to the public. I do not know if you have ever seen one but who know drives an EV1? We had two good friends that had EV1s (1999 and a 2000 model) which GM abruptly taken away from them without explanation.
The whole argument of "GM swooping in and taking EV-1s away with no warning" is a questionable premise at best. The EV-1 program was designed as a closed end lease from day 1 for a number of reasons.
- The battery technology in the EV-1 is primitive compared to where it is today. It was decided early on that the vehicles would need to be brought back after lease to spare the customer the then unknown cost of having to deal with battery replacement and/or retrofitting to a new type of battery at the end of the original battery life. Customers knew on the day that they signed the lease that they were going to have to give the vehicle back. There are two programs currently inplay that are operating similarly. In California, you can L-E-A-S-E a Honda Clarity Fuel Cell Vehicle. Guess what happens at the end of the lease? GM is also executing a fuel cell demo fleet in California, New York, Florida, and Washington DC. In this case, the vehicles are not being leased, they're being loaned. Why? Because at the end of the program we want them back. Why? Because there is no infrastructure to support these vehicles once the program is completed. Sorta like the EV-1, because.......
- There was no guarantee that California would follow through on its committment to deploy the infra-structure to provide away-from-home recharging capability. The EV-1 had range up to about 200 miles, depending on driver habits, but if you were stuck away from home, away from your specialized induction charger, you were screwed. The point of the Volt is that you can drive for 40 miles (covers daily commute for 78% of US population) without ever turning on the gas engine. If you do run low on charge, the gas engine turns on ONLY TO CHARGE THE BATTERY. This extends the range of the vehicle to 640 miles, compared to 200 for the EV-1
- It was unknown whether or not electric vehicles would be accepted outside of California, Nevada, Arizona, and eventually New York where the EV-1 fleet was deployed. This would mean that the vehicle would be of limited or no value in the other 46 states. Now that it is clear that there is a demand for electric vehicles AND the ability to provide the range extending features, that concern has gone away, there is no concern about 50 state viability.
Martin
#27
Re: Volt battery testing started
And you K-N-O-W this to be true because...........?????
#29
Re: Volt battery testing started
Since you are GM employee-martinjlm, you should be ashamed in your effort to bring hybrids to market. Just how many cars does GM have on the market getting 50mpg or more? And, how many vehicles does GM have on the market getting less than 15mpg? Oh and not sure if you know the other fact- it has recently been announced Toyota now is number one in vehicles sales pushing GM from that spot. Mr. Satisified GM employee, the bottom line is you guys are too late to market if and when the Volt does hit the market. Toyota will have the plug in hybrid to market in 2010 and it will be affordable. And SHAME ON GM - the Chevo Aveo getting 25mpg, a small compact car. That gets just a much as an Infiniti G35 with 280 horsepower. I guess GM's definition of gas economy is certainly different that Toyota's definition of economy cars. GM will ultimately pay the price for NOT listening to actual customer needs given car is almost $4 per gallon.
#30
Re: Volt battery testing started
[quote=valerieannt;169583] Just how many cars does GM have on the market getting 50mpg or more? quote]
Can you point out any new vehicle sold in this country (USA) that has a 2008 EPA rating of 50mpg or better?
Can you point out any new vehicle sold in this country (USA) that has a 2008 EPA rating of 50mpg or better?
Last edited by Billyk; 04-23-2008 at 03:23 PM. Reason: spelling