The Volt is a purely electrical vehicle whose battery can be recharged with an internal combustion engine. What I don't get is how this is more efficient than the Prius. The Prius connects the ICE and electrical motor to the wheels and adjusts power from these two sources depending on whether you need more power (e.g. for highway drive) or less power (e.g. for stop-start traffic). When petrol is needed, then the petrol burnt in the ICE sends energy straight to the wheels. In the Volt, however, this petrol needs to be converted to electricity first and then to rotational energy in the wheels. This extra step in conversion not only uses up battery power when such a thing is not necessary but because of the extra step in energy conversion there would undoubtedbly be more energy loss. The Volt seems like nothing but a plug-in electric hybrid. I don't see how this Volt is any better than a hacked plug-in electric Prius.

Does the Volt have regenerative braking? If not then wouldn't that be an additional source of energy waste because kinetic energy is wasted as heat energy?

 

It is way too early to really say. It is a shame that GM doesn't have an EV around that they could install a 20-30 kW ICE generator in to do some prototype testing. I could see a well tuned, ICE powered generator getting thermodynamic efficiencies in the 38-42% range. That would be enough to make a fairly efficient vehicle. As a demo car, it would have a lot of credibility but it doesn't matter now.

In the fall, we should see the first 2-stage transmission, GM hybrids showing up. We don't know enough about that technology and I'd be happier if I didn't see what looks like a torque converter. We'll just have to see what arrives in the show room. I look forward to a test drive.

Bob Wilson

 

Ever since I heard of this car, I have wanted it. I saw it in person two days ago, it is smaller then I thought. But I still want it!!!!!

 

Odd thought but the Volt concept seems to be alike to an existing rather old technology - Diesel-electric subs. Driven by electricity from a battery while keeping a normal internal combustion engine for the purpose of recharging the battery. Surprised it took us think long to attempt and apply this to an auto.

 

I love how people want to see the demise of GM......

I don't see Honda or Toyota helping the US without major clauses when they drop the US Dollar as their investment / conversion factor. The Dollar has been dropping for a while. Oil has not been rising only because of OPEC. The Middle East is now asking for payments in Euros or other non-dollar related equivalents.

We need to back GM and Ford to insure our futures. I would like to see the Unions broken apart because they are like a plague against GM and Ford. Long term pensions should go the way of the wind so we could have a fighting chance against the imports.

If funny that we think war is all about weapons of mass destruction or troops sent to a foreign land to do battle in full body armor. But war is also economic. Japan attacked us many years ago with Kamikaze fighters and we fought back. Now they threaten our lives again with superior products and devaluation of our dollar.....

Problem is, Japan doesn't make anything themselves, they are a people that look at our inventions and improve them, make them better. We in turn buy them. In fact we buy anything as long as it says "Made anywhere but the USA"

It could possibility take GM 4 - 5 years to make a viable Volt for showroom readiness. Of course Honda or Toyota could also take that time and break down what makes a Volt tick and redesign a better more efficient model. Is that fair, No it is not.

The fact that GM even showed a working prototype of that car is amazing, but might prove amazingly stupid. When you get robbed you don't tell the robber about the extra money you might have in your shoes??? If the robber is lucky he gets what he thinks is a valuable wallet. Hopefully GM only had a fake wallet to show the media so it can keep what they are really working on secret until it is ready...

-- Rant over --

 

I applaud that rant

I think we need to take things a step further than just ending the unions. We need to protect our own products, give incentives for american made products (ones really made inside the country and not china). Higher taxes or tariffs on foreign imports.

Perhaps the universal health plan could help to end the woes of the Big 3.

 

I have a novel idea. Rather than ranting about protectionist policies, why don't we make the superior products ourselves?!? Let's make the stuff the consumer wants to buy. Isn't that what this country is supposed to be all about - letting the marketplace decide?

The Silicon Valley culture is such that if companies don't obsolete their own products in a few years, somebody else well. The fact of the matter is that in the U.S. we innovate and commercialize technology better than anyone else in the world. The problem is that the auto and oil industries don't operate this way. Detroit needs to step up and build the stuff we want to buy rather than trying to protect their marketshare by burying "threatening" technologies. If GM comes through with the Volt by the time I'm ready for my next car, I'd be the first to have it replace the Prius in my garage.

 

I disagree just a bit. There is nothing about the Volt's technology that's revolutionary or can't be produced by any number of auto makers right now. The problem is the batteries. For the size and quantity required in the Volt, they're simply too expensive right now to manufacture the car for anywhere near an acceptable price point. The battery technology is not GM's problem (unless they're secretly in the lithium battery manufacturing business). I personally think all the hybrid-making auto makers are waiting for the lithium batteries to be affordable and you'll see a rash of next-gen hybrids on lithium batteries that out-perform everything we have now. I'm sure the Volt will be in the mix at that time. Everyone seems to enjoy pouncing on GM over the Volt when the only real thing keeping it off the streets now is the same thing keeping all lithium-battery-based hybrids off the road - cost.

I get your point, but I still don't think there's any technology there that's super-secret where they're tipping their hand or giving anything away. Any auto maker can dream up cool concept cars - it's an entirely different thing to put one into production - and that little aspect may be their "secret money in the shoes", to borrow your analogy. I think GM will be on to a winner if they're ready to pull the trigger and get these into the show room the moment they become affordable, rather than another 3-4 year delay.

 

Exactly!

Series-hybrids (plug-in hybrids) are very simple technology with massive pollution, oil-dependency and CO2 reducing potential BUT the batteries (and ONLY the batteries) are the current stumbling block.

We had plug-in hybrids on the roads in Europe from about 10 years ago (Audi Duo, Renault Electroad etc), but they failed because the batteries were: too heavy, too slow to charge, too expensive, too low cycle life.

The big advance that GM has is their alliance with A123. The A123 batteries are lithium-nano-iron-phosphate. These are: light, powerful, quick to charge, long life.

Regarding cost, in mass produced established cobalt-oxide LiIon 18650 batteries, like you get in cameras etc, is about $300 per kWh. So when volumes are high, the costs can be low.

GM and A123 are planning 60,000 vehicle packs per year, making their partnership the largest volume LiIon manufacturer in the world. The materials for the A123 battery are also cheaper than normal LiIon batteries (no cobalt).

Toyota has none of this (battery-wise), so GM is most certainly in the lead here.

 

Not until their product hits the show room floor. "PowerPoint" or "Press Release" engineering is only worth the recycle value of the paper it is printed upon. BTW, this is the same standard I hold all manufacturers to.

Bob Wilson