Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
#1
02-23-2007, 06:32 AM
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Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ids-usat_x.htm
So now we know....
The TCH being 34 is good because now I am instantly a Hypermiler !!!
Fuel-saving gasoline-electric hybrid cars don't save as much fuel as thought, according to new government fuel-economy ratings available to the public for the first time.
The new ratings go into effect beginning with 2008 models, a few of which will soon be on sale. But now it's possible to tell what rating 2007 and older models would get using the '08 standards.
The government's fuel-economy website has a program than makes the comparison. Click on the button that says "Compare Old and New MPG Ratings." It shows that vehicles typically bought for their fuel efficiency use significantly more fuel than the previous ratings have said.
Toyota's (TM) Prius, best-known and best-selling gas-electric car in the USA, drops to 48 miles per gallon in the city under the '08 testing procedure, from a 60 mpg rating under the current system — a 20% decline. Its highway mileage rating falls about 12%, to 45 mpg.
The Ford (F) Escape hybrid, which uses a gasoline-electric drive system similar to Toyota's, goes down about 12%.
"What the cars get hasn't changed. It's just the numbers on the sticker," says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. The lowered Prius rating is "probably more reflective of real-world experience," he says. "We hear people getting 46 to 50. I have one, and I get 48.
The new ratings go into effect beginning with 2008 models, a few of which will soon be on sale. But now it's possible to tell what rating 2007 and older models would get using the '08 standards.
The government's fuel-economy website has a program than makes the comparison. Click on the button that says "Compare Old and New MPG Ratings." It shows that vehicles typically bought for their fuel efficiency use significantly more fuel than the previous ratings have said.
Toyota's (TM) Prius, best-known and best-selling gas-electric car in the USA, drops to 48 miles per gallon in the city under the '08 testing procedure, from a 60 mpg rating under the current system — a 20% decline. Its highway mileage rating falls about 12%, to 45 mpg.
The Ford (F) Escape hybrid, which uses a gasoline-electric drive system similar to Toyota's, goes down about 12%.
"What the cars get hasn't changed. It's just the numbers on the sticker," says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. The lowered Prius rating is "probably more reflective of real-world experience," he says. "We hear people getting 46 to 50. I have one, and I get 48.
The TCH being 34 is good because now I am instantly a Hypermiler !!!
#2
02-23-2007, 07:20 AM
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Re: Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
That works for me:
30 MPG -> 01 Echo
41 MPG -> 03 Prius
BTW, this means only two entries in the "Prius I" page are not hyper-milers. YEA, YEA, YEA! In fact, the new EPA ratings have made the concept of 'hypermiler' something out of 'A Prairie Home Companion':
On a serious note, this solves a problem that had tied egos to individual MPG performance to the current EPA threshold, the 'hyper miler' status. Built upon the former EPA standards, it apparently became a barrier to advancing hybrid technology. The new EPA standards pretty well makes this nonsense.
Bob Wilson
30 MPG -> 01 Echo
41 MPG -> 03 Prius
BTW, this means only two entries in the "Prius I" page are not hyper-milers. YEA, YEA, YEA! In fact, the new EPA ratings have made the concept of 'hypermiler' something out of 'A Prairie Home Companion':
Originally Posted by Garrison_Keilor
“where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average.”
Bob Wilson
Last edited by bwilson4web; 02-23-2007 at 07:37 AM.
#4
02-23-2007, 09:19 AM
Dazed and Confused
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 732
Re: Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
From the looks of the list provided by USA Today, the hybrid took about the same apparent hit as the other cars. It is just that 12% of a larger number is well larger. It is still the same % decrease that most non hybrids took. The sad part is that 12% decrease in FE for a hybrid is still less fuel than a 12% decrease in a poor FE vehicle.
#6
02-23-2007, 11:02 PM
Energy Independence
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,282
Re: Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
42 MPG for the HCH-II. Versus 50 before.
And only 29/30 now (manual/auto) for the regular Civic. Versus 33/34 before.
And *gulp* only 13 (instead of the old 15 MPG) for my seldom-used Benz.
These numbers all seem a little on the low side, and should be attainable by more people.
I hope that doesn't discourage "more fuel-efficient" driving.
And only 29/30 now (manual/auto) for the regular Civic. Versus 33/34 before.
And *gulp* only 13 (instead of the old 15 MPG) for my seldom-used Benz.
These numbers all seem a little on the low side, and should be attainable by more people.
I hope that doesn't discourage "more fuel-efficient" driving.
#7
03-01-2007, 09:02 AM
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Re: Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
Hi folks,
One of the interesting aspects of the EPA web page is a more detailed description of the new and old test methods:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
It is interesting because if we can get the detailed break-down of each of the five tests, we can use that as a 'road map' to user modifications to improve our existing cars. For example, the "Cold Temperature" test profile is performed at 20F. I've already found that my thermistor hack is especially effective in improving my NHW11 performance in cold weather. I'm seeing ~5 MPG improvement on top of my baseline performance and it gets better at lower temperatures.
The point is if we can get the individual test results for our vehicles, we can look at the price-performance trade-off of pursuing any particular change or modification.
Bob Wilson
One of the interesting aspects of the EPA web page is a more detailed description of the new and old test methods:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
It is interesting because if we can get the detailed break-down of each of the five tests, we can use that as a 'road map' to user modifications to improve our existing cars. For example, the "Cold Temperature" test profile is performed at 20F. I've already found that my thermistor hack is especially effective in improving my NHW11 performance in cold weather. I'm seeing ~5 MPG improvement on top of my baseline performance and it gets better at lower temperatures.
The point is if we can get the individual test results for our vehicles, we can look at the price-performance trade-off of pursuing any particular change or modification.
Bob Wilson
#8
03-01-2007, 10:11 PM
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ppls Rep. of Boulder
Posts: 480
Re: Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
I even more happy with my gas mileage, my tacoma has been reduced to 18/25. By my estimate I'm 60% city/40% highway or EPA 20.8. But I'm (after a long cold winter) at 28.1, but get a summer average in the 32 mpg range. My current average is 35% above the EPA.
If we made 30% above EPA "Hypermiler" who would be with me?
Just for fun a Prius is now 48/45, and with the benefit of the doubt let's use 45, so a hypermiler at +30% would be 58.5.
For a Civic it is now 39/42, let's go 39 so hypermiler would be 50.7.
I'm starting to feel pretty good about my Tacoma.
If we made 30% above EPA "Hypermiler" who would be with me?
Just for fun a Prius is now 48/45, and with the benefit of the doubt let's use 45, so a hypermiler at +30% would be 58.5.
For a Civic it is now 39/42, let's go 39 so hypermiler would be 50.7.
I'm starting to feel pretty good about my Tacoma.
#9
05-04-2007, 11:45 PM
Pretty Darn Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 374
Re: Now you can compare new EPA ratings vs old
Another useful website to find EPA MPG comparisons:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp
For example, the Prius:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calcu...ta&model=Prius
46mpg for the Prius is pretty close to the average stated here on GreenHybrid.com (48). Then again, 46 is lower than the LOWEST mpg I've ever gotten on my Prius (47).
And as I said in the past, comparing new EPA numbers to new EPA numbers, the real hybrids put the gas-guzzlers and fake hybrids to shame. The HCH gets 42mpg in the new numbers; the GMC Sierra "Hybrid" gets just 16. The Hummer H3 fell from 17 to 15, while the even worse Hummer H1 is absent from the website.
The Ford Fusion non-hybrid gets 23, tying Toyota's power-hybrid Lexus 450h.
So, 42 and 46 don't sound as impressive as 60 and put 100mpg further off, but when under the new numbers breaking 20 is a struggle for the rest of the field, there isn't any less reason to love a Civic Hybrid or Prius when gas prices are up - and out here it's $3.53/gal and rising. Premium gas will break $4 by end of June at this rate.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp
For example, the Prius:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calcu...ta&model=Prius
46mpg for the Prius is pretty close to the average stated here on GreenHybrid.com (48). Then again, 46 is lower than the LOWEST mpg I've ever gotten on my Prius (47).
And as I said in the past, comparing new EPA numbers to new EPA numbers, the real hybrids put the gas-guzzlers and fake hybrids to shame. The HCH gets 42mpg in the new numbers; the GMC Sierra "Hybrid" gets just 16. The Hummer H3 fell from 17 to 15, while the even worse Hummer H1 is absent from the website.
The Ford Fusion non-hybrid gets 23, tying Toyota's power-hybrid Lexus 450h.
So, 42 and 46 don't sound as impressive as 60 and put 100mpg further off, but when under the new numbers breaking 20 is a struggle for the rest of the field, there isn't any less reason to love a Civic Hybrid or Prius when gas prices are up - and out here it's $3.53/gal and rising. Premium gas will break $4 by end of June at this rate.
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