Gary, I think quite likely I am okay, but yes indeed I sure hope I'm right. Mileage has been unchanged, in fact increasing at the former rate (with the warmer weather) since the oil change. And remember, I saw no smoke for a week, it was a case of a 1/3 mile EV run, than a fast right hand 90 degree turn, then sudden nearly full power application--not slammed on, but steady 80% press of the pedal from a base speed of about 17mph up to 50 mph, during which the smoke came out. The dealership said I they tested at 1/5 of a quart over, however that was AFTER I drove the car a wee, plus had the big smoke burst yesterday. I wondering if the overfill, combined with a very hard right hand turn, maybe sloshed some oil into the intake manifold perhaps explaining why I've seen no smoke since last week except for yesterday's event. The dealer is a big Ford/Honda dealer here, has a generally good reputation. I explained the whole issue to the dealer, who went out and had them deliver 4 quarts of oil into a measuring container, thru their oil pump delivery tool, and he said it was about .25 quarts over. Who knows, I didn't go back with him, but I knew it was done on a rack, or so my friend who works there told me.

 

Noel, I've rebuilt a fair amount of engines and race engines in my day and even blew my '67 Shelby GT 500 427 medium riser up at 7,000 + RPMs. Pretty much know how oil gets in the combustion chamber and EV or the turn had nothing to do with your FFH smoking. The high oil level and high RPMs was what caused the smoke I'm quite sure. In order for this to happen you had to have over a quart high in your engine. Oil can't slosh into your intake manifold, that's impossible in the 2.5L engine we have. I can't say the dealer was using ramps but I can say too much oil was in your engine and it was more than just the little they're telling you. Your crankshaft and piston rods hit all the settled oil in the top of your oil pan which had returned to the pan from the top of the engine during EV. Your crankshaft and rods whipped up the oil like a blender from the higher RPMs and saturated your cylinders walls with way to much oil. The piston rings started to float (not scrape) on the oil and oil bypassed them into the combustion chamber. This is what caused the smoke and emissions light to come On.

I've also found this happen to a FEH poster who started seeing smoke while sitting on a fairly steep incline. I had him check his oil level and sure enough it was to high also.

There is a safety factor for adding a little to much oil and burning to much oil between changes. The guy on the incline should have not seen smoke if he had the right level of oil in his engine. Same thing when you turned that corner, you should not have seen smoke even if you floored it.

Even though you thought about the oil being to high, I had already posted the question not knowing anything about what your oil level was. The dealer told you 1/5 over to cover their A**. BP will tell us they put safety first and profits last also. Your friend at the dealership needs his job, not any problems you may have with your FFH. The good thing is if Ford had to pay for you a new engine under warranty, you have a record that the oil was changed at a certified Ford Dealer. I think you'll be okay also but I'd get very mad if they are not if I were you.

One other thing about oil level I think you and others here should know. Some hypermilers drive their cars with a half or so quart low to stay in the safety factor but also to increase their mileage. You can see I'm getting at making sure you don't have any more oil than the manual calls for. The oil becomes a drag in the engine the higher it is. I personally kept my oil level right where the engineers at Ford tell me to keep it but no higher at anytime. You can see from my mileage log my FEH is in top running condition with the oil level where it should be.

GaryG

 

It sounds like it would be best to have them fill it about to the halfway mark on the dip stick. When I checked the oil level the next morning, yesterday, it was ~3/16 - 1/4 " above the top mark.

Gary do you think much damage happened with that one event? My wife drove the car to the Bay Area (185mi) today and it continues to drive fine and mileage is holding at 42.3 or so she says. Seems like it must have survived the insult. Tell me, why would revving the engine cause oil to get into the combustion chambers, versus my usual conservative driving practices? I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever of smoke, except during the event I described.

 

Noel, I can't believe the dealership let you drive away without draining the oil down to the proper level after you pointed this out to them. The MAX mark on the oil stick means MAX and anything over is not good for your engine at any RPM. When you have an event where oil is forced into the combustion chamber at a rate to cause any smoking in this low emissions engine, you've better get the problem solved. Even at low RPMs a small amount of oil will damage you Cat converter and sensors. It almost sounds to me that your dealership is trying to damage vehicles to get more service work. Ford engineers designed the engine so just the amount of oil needed is slung on the cylinder walls to lube them, not drown them. The amount of oil is controlled through the crankshaft by drilled holes that the oil pump provides pressure. This oil goes through these holes to the rod bearings and a controlled amount of this oil is slung from the rod bearing onto the cylinder walls to lube them. When you overfill the oil pan the crank and rods dip down in this pool of oil in the pan and oil is no longer controlled. This uncontrolled splash of oil causes the smoke and damage to the engine and exhaust system. This is where you start seeing a drop in MPG because of the resistances as the crank hits the oil. When your oil is so overfilled that it is causing oil to be splashed at a uncontrolled rate and escape pass the rings into the combustion chamber which can cause smoke and damage.

When I overfilled my '09 FEH engine I noticed a drop in MPG my first drive after. I had no idea the oil was overfilled because I'm very careful to drain all the oil and add the exact amount of oil the manual calls for. Because I monitor my mileage so close and the drop in MPG was right after the oil change, BINGO!, I knew something was wrong with the oil change. I had changed from the factory Motorcraft oil to Mobil 1 but could not believe that was the problem. All I had was a drop in MPG without any smoke and my FEH must be okay because I'm now getting record MPG out of it. You don't come close to squeezing the mileage out of your FFH yet that I do in my FEH, so you can't tell how an overfill would effect you. Look at my mileage log and you will see the MPG graph dips down to 48mpg on 3/25/09 and find my thread of the overfill on that tank. It was my ramps that caused my overfill. It's your dealer causing your overfill for what ever reason.

I don't know how much if any damage was done to your engine at this point but I would correct the problem now.

GaryG

 

No Gary, that is not what happened this time around. On the oil change 5K miles ago, I checked the oil level before leaving the dealership and discovered it was overfilled by 1/4" or so above the top line. I brought it to their attention, and they drained to to even w/ the top line.

When I took the car in last week for an oil change, I was in a hurry and did not check the oil level prior to departure, only to discover again a week later that it was overfilled, after the event occurred and I remembered I had done the oil change the week before.

Two days ago I took the car back to have them drain off the excess oil. After this was done, I asked to talk to the service manager, who promptly went out and tested the calibration of their oil pumper, and he told me they set the pumper to 4 quarts, then emptied the load into a clean measuring container, and discovered it squirted out 4.25 quarts. This would help explain why the oil change 5K miles ago led to the same overfill I experienced again last week, ie that the pumper was not calibrated correctly.

 

As I say, the oil was drained back to even with the top mark. Since I had no evidence of engine lights or smoke during the last fill cycle (when I had them drain back to even with the top mark), I have to think it's probably ok now. However, I will f/u on your recommendation and have them under fill it relative to the top line, just to have some margin of safety built in for the issues you pose.

On a related note. I don't like the sound of them overfilling cars, since sure, if it was the pumper tool that was out of calibration, then they have been overfilling all cars they service. I wonder who I should talk to about this issue, besides the service manager? There is another dealer I can use for service that is sort of equidistant from my home, and that is an option as well. What's interesting is that the service manager said, and I paraphrase, "Ford tells us not to go by the dipstick, but to just add x amount of quarts of oil for an oil change procedure." This bothered me, though I can understand Ford might be giving them some shortcuts to speed up time for service. It bothered me because why have a dipstick if it's not very useful. Plus, with the concept he conveyed, this would not prevent overfills caused by not fully draining the oil pan. This dealership is quite large, and has a big service department, and a fair reputation in our area.

 

Gary, on hypermiling the FFH. I played around with P&G in Neutral one morning on the back roads to my work, about a 55mi drive one way. There is an odd behavior with the FFH I don't know if you are aware of. When the car is in EV mode (<47mph tops), and you put the car in neutral, the battery drains quite steadily. I don't understand this because the car is in EV mode, and the ICE is clearly off, and it IS gliding better (ie, the regenerative system is clearly not engaged). This is particularly troublesome when you are going downhill, because you are no longer charging the battery, indeed you are draining the battery. For my commute, this is for the first 10 miles a true show stopper, because in short order, you have a drained battery, whereas if I drive at 55mph (or higher) on this slope, I end up with max charging and max real time MPG, but end up with a fully charged battery at the bottom, and can use that as needed as we move along. I did then try P&G in neutral, keeping the car running between 45mph to about 30mph or so, and the same thing occurred: the battery drains during the glide. I don't know if this is how FEH works, but it is an issue with FFH, and seems to kill the idea (ie, of P&G in neutral)

Perhaps you know of a trick to prevent the battery from draining while the car is in neutral and the car is gliding in EV? This is critical I'm guessing. BTW, i had NO electrical appliances on except the stereo, ie no A/C, no headlights, etc.

The long and short of it: for my 55m trial drive, there really was no, and I mean no, improvement over my current driving habits. I'd like to see how Wayne or you or whomever would do on my route, with my car, as I'm not seeing it, unless of course we create conditions so unnatural, that they truly become non-practical, and leads me to my former question: why drive a 2 ton vehicle like it's a little electric car? The parts alone, ie the cost of manufacture, the safety and perf characteristics, makes me really question hypermiling a big heavy vehicle. Just doesn't make sense to buy all that performance to run it like a small EV.

If you really care about fuel efficiency, I'm thinking you really need to be in this car: http://www.aptera.com/ This thing is, for lack of a better analogy, an iPhone on wheels. Very cool, light, crazy efficient, and with a coolness factor that has you wondering, should I park this in a parking space, or look for an open hangar!

 

Noel, the FFH uses the generator motor and the battery to spin the engine above 40mph in EV to prevent damage to the traction motor from to much RPM. So neutral may not be as FE above 40mph in EV mode in some cases as below 40mph. I just recently found this out from a friend name Sean (Right Lane Cruiser) on Cleanmpg.com while we were working on hypermiling issues in his Wife's FFH. Read this thread in which we discuss this: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33109

If you're interested in hypermiling your FFH it would be worth joining http://www.cleanmpg.com/ to learn from our group. If you read what Sean posted and have any questions either he or Wayne could enlighten you more about the FFH.

GaryG

 

Ahh, that would explain that. I'll play again at <40mph and see if this is better. Even so, the loss of regen is not intuitive as a means of improving FE. But you folks are the experts with regard to successful practices.

As for hypermiling personally, I am more 'hypermile-curious(!)' because as I say, having the big iron then driving it like a vehicle 1/3 it's weight and power seems kind of a mismatch to me. I really kinda wished I'd waited for Aptera in some ways. Very cool device and plus, I love airplanes as well. Now that's a hybrid: airplane feel/aerodynamics + automobile functionality. Easy to get 150mpg out of that sucker. The Aptera has a drag coefficient for the entire vehicle about what our wiper blades provide! 55% of the power used when up to speed it dealing with wind resistance alone they say (or so I recall).

 

I was unable to produce any smoke after over 1/2 mile EV, hard right, go to full throttle after the ICE engages.

I hope you don't have any recurrance.