Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
#31
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
There is a small disc to the passenger side of the gear selector. If you pry off this little disc, there is a button underneath. Pressing this button with ANY pointed object, such as a ball point pen will allow you to shift to ANY gear position, including "Neutral"
without any key required.
This is a FACT that ANYONE can try and prove in 60 seconds or less.
This is one way to tow the vehicle if the key is missing, you don't want to drain either battery, or if you don't want your keys stolen from the vehicle when you park your tow-behind. Leaving the key in subjects the entire FEH to theft. Without the key in the car, the car cannot be started.
This is no April Fool.
The only fool in this thread is... well....
without any key required.
This is a FACT that ANYONE can try and prove in 60 seconds or less.
This is one way to tow the vehicle if the key is missing, you don't want to drain either battery, or if you don't want your keys stolen from the vehicle when you park your tow-behind. Leaving the key in subjects the entire FEH to theft. Without the key in the car, the car cannot be started.
This is no April Fool.
The only fool in this thread is... well....
#32
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
I should point out that the procedure described above is all spelled out in the owner's manual. You all read your owner's manuals, didn't you?
#33
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
GaryG
#34
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
I've never towed a vehicle with all four wheels on the ground. Are you supposed to do it with the steering wheel locked? or not? Seems that with the key it would be unlocked and without it the steering wheel would be locked.
When you turn a corner with the tow vehicle, do you want that back vehicles steering wheel free or not....
When you turn a corner with the tow vehicle, do you want that back vehicles steering wheel free or not....
#35
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
In the '06 its on page 200.... however I wouldn't say the description talks about using it for towing.
#36
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
gpsman1 — I dislike the way you have been disparaging other correspondents in this thread. There's no need to be so unpleasant! One can disagree without being disagreeable! Disinformation does not serve the goal of understanding, and you have been providing quite a bit of the former, while ignoring clear evidence cited to the contrary. On your part, you cite no evidence to support your claims.
For example, Ford's US patent #6 793 034 entitled "Wheel-End and Center Axle Disconnects for an Electric or HEV" cited in Post #16 by GaryG clearly states that their disconnect system is indeed a mechanical disconnect, as claimed by GaryG. I quote from the patent:
(a) Abstract — "The disconnect device can comprise a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect. The axle disconnect can be electric or vacuum powered and positioned as as a center disconnect or a wheel-end disconnect."
(b) column 3, line 7 — "Additional advantages to this disconnect system could allow a flat tow of the electric powered vehicle ..."
(c) claim 1 — "... the axle further comprising a means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from at least one drive wheel ..." [Note: "output shaft" is defined earlier in claim 1 as " ... an output shaft, the output shaft mechanically connected to at least one axle, the axle mechanically connected to at least one drive wheel ..."]
(d) claim 2 — "The system of claim 1 wherein the means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from the drive wheels comprises a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect."
(e) claim 3 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is electric powered."
(f) claim 4 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is vacuum powered."
So, when you say in your Post #28 that "'Isolated' for example refers to electrically isolated, not mechanically," you are just plain wrong. The FEH disconnect is a mechanical disconnect. End of argument!
Stan
For example, Ford's US patent #6 793 034 entitled "Wheel-End and Center Axle Disconnects for an Electric or HEV" cited in Post #16 by GaryG clearly states that their disconnect system is indeed a mechanical disconnect, as claimed by GaryG. I quote from the patent:
(a) Abstract — "The disconnect device can comprise a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect. The axle disconnect can be electric or vacuum powered and positioned as as a center disconnect or a wheel-end disconnect."
(b) column 3, line 7 — "Additional advantages to this disconnect system could allow a flat tow of the electric powered vehicle ..."
(c) claim 1 — "... the axle further comprising a means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from at least one drive wheel ..." [Note: "output shaft" is defined earlier in claim 1 as " ... an output shaft, the output shaft mechanically connected to at least one axle, the axle mechanically connected to at least one drive wheel ..."]
(d) claim 2 — "The system of claim 1 wherein the means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from the drive wheels comprises a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect."
(e) claim 3 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is electric powered."
(f) claim 4 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is vacuum powered."
So, when you say in your Post #28 that "'Isolated' for example refers to electrically isolated, not mechanically," you are just plain wrong. The FEH disconnect is a mechanical disconnect. End of argument!
Stan
#37
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
gpsman1 — I dislike the way you have been disparaging other correspondents in this thread. There's no need to be so unpleasant! One can disagree without being disagreeable! Disinformation does not serve the goal of understanding, and you have been providing quite a bit of the former, while ignoring clear evidence cited to the contrary. On your part, you cite no evidence to support your claims.
For example, Ford's US patent #6 793 034 entitled "Wheel-End and Center Axle Disconnects for an Electric or HEV" cited in Post #16 by GaryG clearly states that their disconnect system is indeed a mechanical disconnect, as claimed by GaryG. I quote from the patent:
(a) Abstract — "The disconnect device can comprise a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect. The axle disconnect can be electric or vacuum powered and positioned as as a center disconnect or a wheel-end disconnect."
(b) column 3, line 7 — "Additional advantages to this disconnect system could allow a flat tow of the electric powered vehicle ..."
(c) claim 1 — "... the axle further comprising a means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from at least one drive wheel ..." [Note: "output shaft" is defined earlier in claim 1 as " ... an output shaft, the output shaft mechanically connected to at least one axle, the axle mechanically connected to at least one drive wheel ..."]
(d) claim 2 — "The system of claim 1 wherein the means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from the drive wheels comprises a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect."
(e) claim 3 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is electric powered."
(f) claim 4 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is vacuum powered."
So, when you say in your Post #28 that "'Isolated' for example refers to electrically isolated, not mechanically," you are just plain wrong. The FEH disconnect is a mechanical disconnect. End of argument!
Stan
For example, Ford's US patent #6 793 034 entitled "Wheel-End and Center Axle Disconnects for an Electric or HEV" cited in Post #16 by GaryG clearly states that their disconnect system is indeed a mechanical disconnect, as claimed by GaryG. I quote from the patent:
(a) Abstract — "The disconnect device can comprise a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect. The axle disconnect can be electric or vacuum powered and positioned as as a center disconnect or a wheel-end disconnect."
(b) column 3, line 7 — "Additional advantages to this disconnect system could allow a flat tow of the electric powered vehicle ..."
(c) claim 1 — "... the axle further comprising a means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from at least one drive wheel ..." [Note: "output shaft" is defined earlier in claim 1 as " ... an output shaft, the output shaft mechanically connected to at least one axle, the axle mechanically connected to at least one drive wheel ..."]
(d) claim 2 — "The system of claim 1 wherein the means to mechanically disconnect the output shaft from the drive wheels comprises a disconnect actuator and joint attached to an axle disconnect."
(e) claim 3 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is electric powered."
(f) claim 4 — "The system of claim 2 wherein the axle disconnect is vacuum powered."
So, when you say in your Post #28 that "'Isolated' for example refers to electrically isolated, not mechanically," you are just plain wrong. The FEH disconnect is a mechanical disconnect. End of argument!
Stan
If we are being strict with our evidence sources, how does a patent on a technology confirm the actual implementation? A patent describes a device or process for the purposes of protecting it from being copied by others. There is no guarantee that because Ford patented it, that it is how it is implemented in the current FEH. I would agree that it is likely, but if we are going to get all fancy about quoting sources rather than speculate, the patent is little more than speculation.
By the way, if the steering is locked, how can it be towed on the 4 wheels? Feel free to speculate because my personal pride is not tied to this discussion.
By the way again, no need for the large bold characters. We can all read the normal text, and browsers can enlarge the text using a simple menu command if need be.
Cheers,
rcomeau
Last edited by rcomeau; 04-02-2007 at 09:49 AM.
#38
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
rcomeau — I said nothing about 4-wheel towing with the steering locked. Ford do make certain claims about 2- and 4-wheel drive towing in their patent, however. If you're asking for my opinion on the question of towing a vehicle with its steering locked, my understanding is that this would be a stupid thing to do. Not only would the towed vehicle be unstable and uncontrollable on curves and corners, but front tire wear would be unconscionable. I agree that citing a patent doesn't prove that the protected concepts are actually present in the FEH, but, like you, I'd be most surprised if Ford used a system that wasn't protected by their own patent on this very matter — and their patent does not protect any other type of disconnect system. Certainly, citing a patent is much more meaningful than providing nothing but one's own opinions! This turns the discussion into informed speculation.
Incidentally, I didn't change the point size; only the correspondents' names were bolded by me. This is the same as the Web software does automatically when you quote someone's post [notice how SPL was bolded in the quote in your Post #37].
Stan
Incidentally, I didn't change the point size; only the correspondents' names were bolded by me. This is the same as the Web software does automatically when you quote someone's post [notice how SPL was bolded in the quote in your Post #37].
Stan
#39
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
rcomeau — I said nothing about 4-wheel towing with the steering locked. Ford do make certain claims about 2- and 4-wheel drive towing in their patent, however. If you're asking for my opinion on the question of towing a vehicle with its steering locked, my understanding is that this would be a stupid thing to do. Not only would the towed vehicle be unstable and uncontrollable on curves and corners, but front tire wear would be unconscionable.
Using the brake light interlock described in the manual to shift from park to neutral with the key not in the ignition.... wouldn't that leave the steering wheel locked?
So I don't think that poster was trying to imply you in particular said anything... I think they were just following the thread.
#40
Re: Why doesn't ICE cut off automatically when coasting?
rcomeau — I said nothing about 4-wheel towing with the steering locked. Ford do make certain claims about 2- and 4-wheel drive towing in their patent, however. If you're asking for my opinion on the question of towing a vehicle with its steering locked, my understanding is that this would be a stupid thing to do. Not only would the towed vehicle be unstable and uncontrollable on curves and corners, but front tire wear would be unconscionable. I agree that citing a patent doesn't prove that the protected concepts are actually present in the FEH, but, like you, I'd be most surprised if Ford used a system that wasn't protected by their own patent on this very matter — and their patent does not protect any other type of disconnect system. Certainly, citing a patent is much more meaningful than providing nothing but one's own opinions! This turns the discussion into informed speculation.
Incidentally, I didn't change the point size; only the correspondents' names were bolded by me. This is the same as the Web software does automatically when you quote someone's post [notice how SPL was bolded in the quote in your Post #37].
Stan
Incidentally, I didn't change the point size; only the correspondents' names were bolded by me. This is the same as the Web software does automatically when you quote someone's post [notice how SPL was bolded in the quote in your Post #37].
Stan
The patents likely refer to the FEH, but is is also common to patent ideas before someone else uses them, or it can refer to a technology that may be applied to a future version of the FEH.
About the towing, it was meant as a general question. Common sense would agree with your assessment and I was just looking for a common concensus.
Cheers,
rcomeau