My wife and I needed to replace our current car and we had decided that environnmental impact was among our priorities. We live in Vermont and need reliable winter transportation. The Prius lost out on it's 3.5 inch ground clearance and comments regarding bottoming out. Gravel roads are not an option in VT. We were down to choosing between the Escape and the Subaru 2.5i Outback. The local Ford dealer was firm on charging over the MSRP on the Escape and to get a comparably equipped Escape it would cost me another $6000. We went with the Outback limited. On our first tank of gas we are at 28 mpg on a PZEV car (because it is VT). Despite the Ford's chairman perspective, I think Ford dealers will limit the success of the Escape and other domestic hybrids.

I heartily endorse the contributors to this website and strongly support the hybrid movement. Economics is still economics and I attempted to optimize both economics and environmental concerns. which led me to my choice. From the beginning of my new car search, I stated that my ideal choice was a Subuaru "hybrid" Outback. The 2.5i is a PZEV car and at least in VT I think it will rival the Escape on gas mileage.

As a side note, the local Subaru dealer did not fully understand PZEV and why that might be a selling point. He does now.

 

Congrats on the PZEV. In a few years maybe we'll get a PZEV Hybrid Outback and you can "trade up" !!!!!!

 

The Money question realy depends on what you are comparing and your local gas price.

I was thinking about replacing a 2002 F-250 with 75K miles on the ticker. It still had good resale (which helped), but it got 13 MPG. I would not have bought new yet except for the FEH.

Locally we have some of the higest gas prices in the US. Last time I looked we were around $2.45, but the outlining stations are still over $3.00.

Comparing 13MPG with 27 MPG (which I guessed accruately is what I would get from the FEH) at a gas price of $2.40 and going around 20K miles a year made the math pretty fool proof.

At the end of the day I think I am out $720 a year, but that did not include the lower insurance. Of course for that $60 a month increase I have a new car verus one that had a limited like span left to it (about 30K before the tranny need to be rebuilt in my experiance).

So the economics worked for me.....your mileage may differ.

Chris Brown

 

Chris,

For me the economic question was Escape vs. Outback vs. other features. Initially the Outback seems to be much better than expected on fuel economy and close to the fuel mileage numbers for the Escape on this site's database. For me the question was environmental impact given other needs - not hybird vs. non-hybrid. But I do believe that hybrids offer a very good pathway to improved environmental impact.

Dave Hearne

 

Keep recording the FE in the database, every real mileage is good to have since others can then make the choice of vehicle based on what people are actually getting in their vehicles, regardless of hybrid or not.

What is the difference in weight between the FEH and Outback? That seems to be the most critical factor in FE, besides the technology involved and size/power of engine.

 

The Outback is a great car, and Subaru has outstanding engineering in terms of reliability and safety. I had a 1998 Outback some years ago, that I then switched for a 2003 MINI Cooper S, and switched that for a Prius II. I still miss the Outback in terms of functionality, and so does my wife. The Prius comes close, but obviously loses out on things such as all weather capability, traction ground clearance, and if I lived in an area where those were a must, Iw oudl probably get an Outback again.
I still hope that Subaru will come up with an Outback version that has either a good (clean) diesel engine, or a hybrid. I heard rumours that they are working on a hybrid.

 

What's sad about this situation is that you were not able to find a Ford dealer willing to deal. I was lucky in that I got mine at invoice.....several other people have been sucessfull at getting FEHs under MSRP, many close to invoice.

I guess the moral of this story is to shop around, however some Ford dealers are shooting themselves in the foot by asking for too much and turning away potential Ford customers.

Had you been able to get an FEH below invoice....would it have been in contention? Just curious....

Nate

 

Enjoy your new vehicle. I suppose all I'd ask is that you choose to continue to come here and read the threads. Stay informed about hybrids and when you are in the market again for a vehicle, I'm sure something will be out there which will not be skewered by dealer greed.

Hope you hang around.

 

Nate,

Probably anything between MSRP and invoice would have gotten my business. Before the Outback purchase, my 3 prior cars had all been Fords and the dealership that was firm on charging over MSRP was also the dealership that has serviced my cars for the last 5 years.

Dave

 

Jerome,

I will continue to monitor hybrid developments, and as I stated earlier I think hybrids are part of a great movement towards more environmentally responsible automobiles. I really wanted to become a member of the "hybrid club" but my particular constraints prevented me from doing so. One of the good things that has come from this forum is how much I know monitor my driving habits to improve gas mileage. The Outback does have an instant mpg as well as overall average mpg readouts. Finally, I would not have purchased the Outback if it had not had a PZEV configuration.